<p>Our son was admitted SCEA to Harvard. He expressed an interest in electrical engineering in his essay. He just received acceptance to the school of engineering at UC Berkeley, as part of the Regents Scholarship application. We live in northern California and he applied to Stanford and Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, and recently submitted his Regents Scholarship application to UCLA engineering. Truly, not expected. When he told me about Harvard, I actually thought he was joking and would not congratulate him until he showed me the e-mail.
Although our family feels extremely grateful for this embarassment of riches, I think our 17 year old son feels a bit overwhelmed with the possible options. And, given his quite limited exposure to engineering, it is not clear if he will definitely major in engineering after all. Math, physics and chemistry are strengths for him but his passions are really jazz guitar and tennis. He played with Legos for a couple of years but was never the type of kid who liked taking apart and putting together things. My husband and I see him as less tech-y and more possibly suited for something like engineering/ business management (I think there is some sort of major like that at Stanford.) He will visit UC Berkeley for an overnight stay at the end of February and likely visit Harvard in mid-April. We have heard Harvard has been pouring much energy and resources in the past 5 years into its engineering department, but it seems its greatest strength is providing an excellent liberal arts education. I think if he got into Stanford, given its longstanding reputation in engineering and proximity to Silicon Valley and great tennis weather,that might provide more clarity. But of course that is not a given. Can anyone with experience in undergraduate engineering education make some comparisons between these schools, especially Harvard, UC Berkeley and Stanford, but also UCLA engineering and Cal Poly? Would any program be significantly more intense/cut-throat or more theoretical versus practical? (He also applied to USC engineering and Northeastern, and is a National Merit finalist so there would be almost certain merit money there.) Rather than muddle the issue with financial aid concerns, please just address their relative merits irrespective of cost. Also, he has seen the Harvard, UCB and Stanford campuses and rather likes them all so far (although he found the Stanford tour the most appealing). Thanks ahead of time for any comments!</p>
<p>kjwong, congrate to your son!
Berkeley and Stanford are top schools in the World for electrical engineering.</p>
<p>But there are exceptional opportunity for Harvard students:
- Your son, may choose his major after one year, many students decided to choose their major after one year
- He may choose some courses at MIT (Cross-registration)
- He may choose courses from Graduate School.
- Harvard has its amazing academic opportunities and interdisciplinary programs,
(Please take a look here: seas.harvard.edu - Harvard is awesome for natural and fundamental science and Biomedical Engineering
- … many extracurricular activities…
- And HARVARD is HARVARD </p>
<p>Good luck to you and your family!</p>
<p>I forgot to mention other impressive programs at Harvard 
Plz checkout WYSS Institute: [Home</a> : Wyss Institute at Harvard](<a href=“http://wyss.harvard.edu%5DHome”>http://wyss.harvard.edu)
and also Harvard Biorobotics [url=<a href=“http://biorobotics.harvard.edu/]Harvard”>http://biorobotics.harvard.edu/]Harvard</a> Biorobotics Laboratory<a href=“it%20is%20unique%20in%20the%20world!”>/url</a>
And…</p>
<p>To add to vladim’s great list, don’t forget Harvard’s iLab! That’s worth a look too before your son decides, kjwong.</p>
<p>I didn’t go to UC Berkeley but my brother did. We are close in age (less than 2 years apart) so we talked a lot during college. UC Berkeley electrical engienering is very intense and very cut throat. UC Berkeley will not hold your hand like an ivy league. Help is available from TA’s and through professor office hours but the material is taught at a quick pace. Since UC Berkeley is a semester system, you go into the material more in depth than at a school with a quarter system so the material can get very difficult in the latter half of the semester. You said that your son isn’t very familiar with engineering. UC Berkeley doesn’t have a separate EE major. They have a major called Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (EECS) so whether you like EE more or CS more, you will take the same courses the first two years. You specialize in EE or CS in your last 2 years. The EECS major is the most difficult major on campus. It is also well known all over the country so every company in Silicon Valley shows up at the career fairs according to my brother (he works at Sandisk now). The first 3-4 semesters for the EECS major are known as the weeder period. It’s a very popular major but not everyone can handle it. My brother is really bright but he said that the material was very difficult.</p>
<p>EE is difficult no matter where you go but the UC Berkeley program is world renown for being tough. That being said, when you apply for jobs, you want to make sure you have a GPA of around 3.5. </p>
<p>I’m not sure if this is a positive or not but since your son unsure about engineering, if he finds the UC Berkeley program too intense, he can also change to other majors on campus. He will probably figure out whether he can handle the major or not within the first year so if it’s not for him, he wont have wasted much time wallowing through it. The nice thing about UC Berkeley is that in addition to a solid engineering program, they are also solid across the board in the sciences, business and math departments so there are always options out there. </p>
<p>I’ve probably made the EECS program sound scary. My brother LOVED his time at UC Berkeley despite the difficult course work. Since the entire class is struggling together, people tend to help each other out so my brother gained a lot of close friends out of the experience. My brother is a proud EECS grad (he was EE, not CS but everyone graduates as EECS). He has a great job now at Sandisk (all of his friends have jobs are various Silicon Valley companies) so for him, it was worth all the pain and effort.</p>
<p>I should also note that I am a UC Davis graduate.</p>
<p>You also might want to look at this.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/1460406-uc-berkeley-vs-ucla-engineering.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/1460406-uc-berkeley-vs-ucla-engineering.html</a></p>
<p>I would like to tell you something important:</p>
<p>Harvard chooses students very carefully:
[Harvard</a> College Admissions § Applying: Freshman Application Process](<a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/tips/decisions.html]Harvard”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/tips/decisions.html)</p>
<p>The lucky accepted students are from all of the world and they have selected based on high qualification and many factors. In the another word, they are best in the world!
“Our goal in admissions and financial aid is clear: We want to bring the best people to Harvard, regardless of their ability to pay — and we do”
[Harvard</a> College Admissions § Financial Aid](<a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/index.html]Harvard”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/index.html)</p>
<p>Harvard have opened its doors to the top outstanding students in the world. Admission to Harvard is need-blind, by which we mean that financial need is not an impediment to admission. International students have the same access to financial aid as United States citizens. On the other hand, universities of California DID NOT offer (or very limited) financial aid to the international students:
[University</a> of California - Finances](<a href=“http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/international/finances/index.html]University”>http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/international/finances/index.html)
Therefore, a lot of top international WILL NOT apply to those universities!
It means the most admitted students are US citizens or permanent residents. I bet most of UC students are residents of California.
Now, I would like to tell you something important:
There are a lot of transferred students at UC coming from California Community Colleges:
“Every year, more and more students apply to the University of California after completing coursework at other institutions.” [Transfer</a> | UC Admissions](<a href=“http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/transfer/index.html]Transfer”>http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/transfer/index.html)
There is an agreement which guarantees to bring California community colleges students to UC :
[Transfer</a> Admission Guarantee | UC Admissions](<a href=“http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/transfer/guarantee/index.html]Transfer”>http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/transfer/guarantee/index.html)</p>
<p>It is very clear that there are a lot of transferred community colleges students at UC!</p>
<p>Also, there will be a significant difference between Harvard University and UC!
If your son decided to study at Harvard, he will have the chance of experiencing (academic + life) with the BEST STUDENTS around the world.
He could easily find a lot of international Olympiad medalist there!
I do believe Harvard not only intend to high qualification of studies but also provide its students with a unique life experience and will open a new window to them. </p>
<p>Also, I think the majority is not so important for undergraduate level. Because he should take some science and general courses during the bachelor level and I AM SURE that Harvard is one the best.
And it would be significant for graduate school. He may decide to choose the best grad school after his bachelor:
[US</a> News & World Report | News & Rankings | Best Colleges, Best Hospitals, and more](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com%5DUS”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com)</p>
<p>Also, Harvard have been bight in Computer Science and Programming Contests:
[The</a> ACM-ICPC International Collegiate Programming Contest](<a href=“http://icpc.baylor.edu%5DThe”>http://icpc.baylor.edu)
[ICPCWiki:</a> Results World Finals 2012](<a href=“http://icpc.baylor.edu/ICPCWiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Results%20World%20Finals%202012]ICPCWiki:”>http://icpc.baylor.edu/ICPCWiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Results%20World%20Finals%202012)</p>
<p>…</p>
<p>I am just kidding here (
If your son study at Harvard he will probably become a US president in the future:
[Obama</a> joins list of seven presidents with Harvard degrees | Harvard Gazette](<a href=“http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2008/11/obama-joins-list-of-seven-presidents-with-harvard-degrees/]Obama”>Obama joins list of seven presidents with Harvard degrees – Harvard Gazette)</p>
<p>Also, if he drop out of Harvard, he probably become someone like “Bill Gates”. And then he will employee top graduates of UCB or Stanford!!!
)</p>
<p>@kjwong - I suspect that you are realizing the problem with posts like this. Asking for opinions comparing programs at different schools elicits many responses that are mostly cheerleading for the responder’s favorite school because very, very few people have direct experience at multiple schools. In my opinion, only someone who has transferred from one school to another can speak authoritatively in making a comparison. Second choice would be someone who did their undergrad at one school and is a prof at the second school. The caveat here is if the time between the two is great then the value of the comparison falls. Third would be someone who did their undergrad at one school and is a grad student at the second. However, the experience in grad school can be quite different from that of the undergrads in the same department. </p>
<p>I suggest that you find the prof that is in charge of undergraduate advising at each of the schools that your son is interested in and that he call him/her to discuss the issues that concern him. Engineering is always among the hardest majors at every school that offers it (my undergrad was in chemical engineering) and all of the schools that your son is considering can prepare him for a successful career as an engineer. There will be differences in which companies come to campus for recruiting and thus some difference in career options. The admissions offers that your son has already received were based on the expectation that your son can succeed in these programs. So, it really comes down to fit and finances. Good luck!</p>
<p>If you can possibly swing it, have him visit the schools again; their admitted students weekends (or if there’s a merit scholarship weekend at Berkeley) would be best, but it would help regardless. I personally got a much better sense of my choices at those weekends than at random tours.</p>
<p>Vladim, that’s because the UC system was created to educate Californians. Not international students or other state students. This is why it’s very difficult to get into a UC (especially the top tier ones) if you’re not from CA.</p>
<p>But back to the topic, Harvard is no doubt the best university in the world in my eyes but if there was one spot where they could definitely improve, it would be engineering. MIT, Caltech, Berkeley and Stanford are regarded as the top engineering schools. Berkeley, Stanford and Caltech have the advantage of being very close to silicon valley (Caltech is actually pretty far away but it’s considered close relative to a school like MIT). </p>
<p>At the same time, I don’t think you should base the decision entirely on these posts(including mine). Visiting the campus and talking to professors/students would really be the best way.</p>
<p>Congratulations on your son’s accomplishments. You should both be very proud.
To me, this is a very important factor. I believe that transitioning from engineering to another major would be much easier at Harvard than making this transition at a UC. I’m not sure how this would be at Stanford, but I expect it would be more like Harvard than UCB.</p>
<p>I’m a big fan of Cal Poly, but if it were by son, I’d advocate for Harvard or Stanford.</p>
<p>Good luck with the decision process.</p>
<p>You have a wonderful, multi-talented child. Many such kids end up in medical/graduate school/law school/launch a business</p>
<p>So financial aid may really matter down the road, when you may need 200K more for medical school or graduate school. With a choice of several outstanding undergraduate options (which you have), choose the best money. Usually, but not always, Harvard now gives excellent financial aid. Carefully compare that to the UCs offer. Harvard’s yield (accepted vs. attending) was in the high 70%, because it lost kids to full ride public univ. and private scholarships, so recently they announced full financial aid to any family with less than about 100K income. It can be a money game.</p>
<p>First of all, congratulations on your son’s acceptances! How exciting; I’m sure you’re all very proud (as you should be). :)</p>
<p>Re: Cal - I don’t have direct experience here, of course, but I’ve known three people who entered the engineering school and later had to take a leave of absence for a semester or two. It is intensely difficult and draining. If you or he is not sure he can handle it, he’d best go for a different school. It’s great that he’s going on an overnight visit - he can reassess how he feels about Cal afterward. </p>
<p>As you said, Harvard isn’t known best for its engineering programs. But that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a pretty darn good school. If your son is the type who will be happy in the Harvard environment (competitive ECs, difficult classwork, the Harvard name), then well, why not? I don’t think he’d lose anything by being in a “weaker” engineering department. And if he does end up switching to a business-type major, Harvard’s the place to be.</p>
<p>The impression I get from Stanford is that it’s California laid-back while still being intensely academic. From the way you describe your son, it sounds like it’d be a good fit for him. And as at Harvard, switching majors shouldn’t be difficult, and he’ll have a wealth of options. (I get the impression that this is not as easy at UCB.) </p>
<p>Cal Poly SLO is a fabulous school in a lovely setting… but if Harvard or UCB are options, why choose SLO? Unless he totally loves the campus or the students, I don’t see what it has to offer. Furthermore, I’ve read that changing your major is notoriously difficult, so it may not be the best option.</p>
<p>Finally, I agree with 2prepmom that if financial aid is the final deciding factor, H will probably be your best bet.</p>
<p>I wanted to thank everyone who has responded to our questions. My husband and I read all of the responses and have found them quite helpful. Really appreciate your generous, thoughtful comments. It takes a village to raise a college kid! Cheers, kjwong</p>