<p>Byerly, I found your comment about the Cadillac really poorly thought out. First of all, my family has a Mercedes and the car sucks. We got sucked in by the look, but it certainly has not lived up to its name. Sometime a name is just a name. Second of all, Columbia is not a Cadillac (no offense to the Cadillac company), but a truly high-class car.</p>
<p>They're both great schools. </p>
<p>I think we can all agree that the first step is getting in and having the luxury of choosing between them, hehehe. </p>
<p>And once you accomplish that, the best advice I can give is to really weigh what matters to you, what you're looking for: financial aid? location? size? undergraduate focus? core curriculum (big difference, here)? student publications? cultural groups? research? double majoring (or joint concentrating)? etc etc etc</p>
<p>Visit the schools. You can't really rely on viewbooks when it comes to this.</p>
<p>Harvard is definitely superior in both reputation and academics. From what I've heard, Columbia is a "war zone." You may like NYC but some of the bruthas in Harlem might not like you. =)</p>
<p>no need for a smiley face there, tupac, that statement is worthless</p>
<p>saxfreq, I agree completely. Have a great year at Harvard.</p>
<p>The Douthat critique is not out of date. Have there been significant revisions to the curriculum since then? No?</p>
<p>Well then, it must still apply. </p>
<p>As for the general value of the core curriculum, applying students tend to avoid it (comparing the trendiness of Brown versus Chicago, for example) but those who do it are well-rewarded and become better citizens for it. Complete specialization at the undergraduate level isn't beneficial.</p>
<p>"You may like NYC but some of the bruthas in Harlem might not like you. =)"</p>
<p>Yes definitely worthless...</p>
<p>I share your final point, zepher. IMHO, every college student should major in Faustean Studies as an undergraduate. There is time enough to learn a grubby trade in graduate school!</p>
<p>Byerly, what would be the "peril," exactly, of choosing Columbia over Harvard? Or, for that matter, of choosing any school over any other? For one, at the faculty level, Jeffrey Sachs didn't see any peril in leaving Harvard for Columbia, and indeed hasn't experienced any since he left. A couple of years before, Robert Barro nearly made the same decision, but was browbeaten by the head of his department, fearful for Harvard's reputation of never losing faculty to other schools, into staying. (I have to ask too, Byerly, since you seem very intelligent and aware, what would lead you to make the astonishingly vulgar and simplistic comparison between car brands and universities? Is that what Harvard's education did for you? Columbia's core would've taught you the perils of such comparisons! Incidentally, it's Faustian, not Faustean.)</p>
<p>Tupac, I'll grant you, to an extent, Harvard's superiority in reputation, but not necessarily in academics. In fact, in the last decade, Columbia has led not only the Ivy League but the country in Nobel Prize winners (this from Sidneyyang in an earlier post):</p>
<p>Physics Chemistry Medicine Economics Total #
Columbia 1 0 2 3 6
Stanford 4 0 0 1 5
MIT 2 1 1 0 4
Caltech 1 1 1 0 3
Princeton 1 0 1 1 3
Berkeley 0 0 0 2 2
Chicago 0 0 0 2 2
Upenn 1 1 0 0 2
Cornell 1 0 0 0 1
Harvard 0 0 0 1 1
Yale 0 0 0 0 0</p>
<p>Source: nobelprize.org</p>
<p>The fact is, till the 1960s, which hit Columbia especially hard, Harvard, Columbia, Berkeley, and Chicago were generally considered the best universities in the country. Since the 1980s, and with very great speed in the 1990s and thereafter, Columbia has been rebuilding; and since in academia, reputation lags reality by about 10-20 years, Columbia's reputation has yet to catch up fully with its very much restored excellence in just about every department.</p>
<p>In short, you'll incur no peril by going to Columbia, and you'll have the excitement of going to a fantastic place -- in by far the country's greatest city -- that's yet getting palpably better by the day.</p>
<p>Hey,
thanks for all the reccommendations.
I have to admit that one of the reasons I wanted to go to Harvard more than anything, was to study under Jeffrey Sachs at the Center for International Development. And now he has moved to Columbia. He's on my top ten list of the coolest potential professors on the planet.
Citywise I'd say Boston might be my kind of place. I've grown up in tiny Copenhagen, and when cities get to big I get a bit daunted.
anyway I would love to hear more comments about columbia and harvard.
thanks again. mahvish</p>
<p>That's a very odd thing to say, since Sachs moved to Columbia more than three years ago! How old did you say you are? How could you be such a professed admirer and have been unaware of this fact? </p>
<p>Exactly how old were you when, 4 years ago or more, you decided that the reason you "wanted to go to Harvard more than anything, was to study under Jeffrey Sachs at the Center for International Development?"</p>
<p>if you can you should definately visit before you apply. another site you could check out to get a better taste of each uni is studentsreview.com
in terms of prestige harvard does rank higher but i dont think that columbia is far behind, as someone who has also lived abroad, harvard, yale, columbia, cambridge and oxford are the unis that are considered the most prestigious.
academically i think both unis are somewhat the same, columbia has very good english and poli sci programs. and also in terms of diversity, columbia has around a 10% international population and considering the fact that it is in NYC, you ought to have a diverse experience.</p>
<p>Unless you REALLY love New York City, then pick Columbia. But if your okay w/ Boston, go w/ Harvard. Something tells me that Columbia will have more of a social life though...</p>
<p>Hello,
I'm 22. ;D Five years ago, when I was 17 and about to start my undergraduate degree I wanted to start at Harvard, so I could study under Sachs.
Whether or not undergrads get to study under professors like him I do not know. In Denmark we don't have the same strict split between undergraduate and graduate school.
Now, or three years ago, Sachs has moved to Columbia ergo studying at Columbia for grad school is not a bad idea.
It's unfortunately a bit difficult for me just to "drop by" Columbia and Harvard. I live in Denmark so a ticket isn't exactly easy to come by. And with a full-time job vacations aren't all that easy to come by either. Would've been great otherwise. I was in New York and Boston this february though - boston had this pretty cool feel to it.
I have made my desision for now though... I am going to take a shot at the LSE/Columbia degree and I can't wait.
Thanks for your help guys.</p>
<p>Mahvish</p>
<p>Mavi, if you're going all the way to America for school, or for just about anything else for that matter, go to New York. You'll be fine there. It's very safe and manageable now, and getting more so all the time (while Boston's murder rate, I recently heard, is on the rise). I grew up in Boston, and I can tell you that though it's quite elegant in some parts, it's very minor and forgettable. It has zero excitement or electricity. As a European, moreover, you could well find its provincialism insufferable, as you probably would most of America.</p>
<p>The difference is this:</p>
<p>discriminating students would choose a good education over a name. </p>
<p>Are you a discriminating student?</p>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>That's true. I have decided for LSE and Columbia so even though there's always going to be something in me saying "but it's harvard" i'm trying to ignore it and go for lse/columbia. I don't want to wait a year to go to Harvard (which is what I would have to do) and living in major cities is cool.</p>
<p>Thanks for all your help guys
mahvish</p>
<p>I went to Columbia and absolutely hated it. Academically, you must devote at least one third of your credits to the core. Classes range from mildly interesting to mind numbingly idiotic. These classes only detract from what you really want to study. Moreover, the classes are often taught by grad students, and the disciplines are often not even within their academic purview. Some of the majors are fine, some are not. I was in a joint program with Juiliard. After my third year, the program was dissolved, but I was never informed of it. There were 8 students participating, and all but my self let. Many went to UC Berkeley, but since they were from California and considered in-state applicants, they were easily accepted. I was not, and remained at Columbia. My choice was to find a new major, of leave the school. Ostensibly, Columbia can and will change programs with or without notice, and the school does not have to grand father clause you in. I ended starting up in a new discipline, Sociology. I waisted an extra three years of my life getting a degree in something I could care less about at a school that I despised. Not good. </p>
<p>As far as the administrators, they are insensitive, unethical, and inaccessible. I was horribly harassed by another student who had a history of drug and alcohol abuser. He also harassed another student to the point where she was forced out of her dorm room (they both lived in the same freshman dorm). Yet the school hired an attorney to protect the harasser, because his father was an alum of the school. Everyone I encountered, from Kevin Schollenberger (dean of Columbia College) to Roxy Smith (Provost), to Susan Glancy (Vice President), where disingenuous, rude, unethical. SHAMEFUL! </p>
<p>Columbia borders on one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the city. Commuting students seldom use the express subway A train, because walking to the campus is a menacing experience. There was a murder right off the campus last year. A student was leaving a Deli, and was shot as he crossed the street. Murders, suicides, rapes, and harassment occurs far more frequently than what is reported to the police. My incident alone was never addressed, and the NYPD said it got lost in the shuffle. This is how they operate. Columbia and the NYPD precinct by the school have a special relationship where information is suppressed. The reported crime statistics have been modified, as not to make Columbia seem as bad as it is. </p>
<p>The campus itself is very small, aesthetically unappealing, and poorly maintained. There is soot on everything, and the interiors are crumbling in many buildings. Columbia also only has a handful of trees, which is a shame because there is room to create green quad. The land is kept barren, because this is where they hold graduation ceremonies in May. This is very sad, considering Columbia owns the soccer fields to the north, which can more than handle the thousands of people attending graduation. Moreover, all of the campus is bisected with hedges. You are not allowed to walk on the grass, because everything is hedged off. The campus literally screams go away, not very welcoming indeed. Resultantly, Columbia has the leas appealing campus of any of the Ivy League Schools. It’s ugly, dirty, and uninviting. </p>
<p>Professors range from knowledgeable to dim witted, and are often not accessible. Classes range from as little as four students to over 300. It’s very hard to say what you are actually going to get when signing up. Like any school, instructors have their favorites, and exams are often geared to those students. On my last exam in the religion department, the question pertained to feminism in Buddhism, which is not the focus of the class. We never spent a lecture discussing feminism, read a book about it, or had to write about in on assignments. However, some of the girls wrote their term papers on Feminism,and all of a sudden the instructor though it was fair game to place that question on the final exam. For those of us who actually studied what was presented in class, and the readings, feminism was not on our raider. Moreover, for the male students, this question was difficult if not impossible to answer. These kinds of favoritism bleeding over into exams happens far far far to much at Columbia.</p>
<p>The students tend to form cliques. It is very difficult to make friends at Columbia. If you are not a certain this or that, you are not. I’ve given up, and no longer try to make friends with anyone. I’m nearly done, and it’s not worth it at this point. I’ve survived three and a half years in solitaire, a few more months won’t kill me, although suicide remains a problem at Columbia. At least I won’t have to send cards to people to stay in touch, because there was no on to stay in touch with. Very snobby and arrogant indeed. </p>
<p>As for New York City, all I can say I’ve never smelled so much garbage, seen so many beggars and homeless people (it really breaks your heart), or witnessed so much blatant crimes. Thefts, physical attacks, stalking, you name it… It all happens at Columbia.
The city is also terribly and needlessly expensive. I finally give up, and don’t go out anymore. I’ll keep my money, thank you. </p>
<p>All in all, Columbia is not a school I would recommend. If you like mind numbing courses removed from what you want to study, Columbia is not for you. I you want a physically and verbally safe college experience, Columbia may not be the school for you. If you want access to instructors, avoid student clicks, and want to be ignored by unethical administrators, then Columbia is definitely not for you. If you don’t want to spend a small fortune on your college, Columbia is not for you. </p>
<p>Please heed this advice from a Columbia student. There are many, many, many Columbians who are so depressed, miserable, and genuinely unhappy attending Columbia. College Walk looks like the walk of the living dead. </p>
<p>My advice is go to Harvard, or Yale, or Rutgers, Michigan, Texas, Tulane, Rice, UVA, Duke, Clemson, Northwester, Emory, Pitt, Baylor, Bucknell, Williams, Amherst, Colgate, or your local community college. Any of those schools would provide you with a superior education at a fraction of the cost. Moreover, you would not have to worry about a corrupt administration, cliquey students, inane core curriculum, the inflated expense, the dangerous neighborhood, and the fact that many of Columbia’s departments are sub par.<br>
Although problems exist at every college, Columbia seems to care little about its students. Resultantly, students go through their four yeas like zombies. I wish I had chosen another school, because Columbia is the most disappointing, dreadful, and dreary place I’ve ever been.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Is this the same program?</p>
<p>[Columbia-Juilliard</a> Exchange | Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/applications/firstyear/juilliard]Columbia-Juilliard”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/applications/firstyear/juilliard)</p>
<p>Wow, this is quite a rant in response to a question asked over seven years ago. I do understand why you don’t want to send your cards to anyone else, however. If you’ve spent three and a half years in solitaire, you clearly need them for yourself! :)</p>