<p>I’m an eclectic worldly student looking for a diverse student body. I’m a female and european- half spanish and half portugese. I ADORE nyc, but want to keep my options open. Then again I love the history within Boston and the people there are so friendly. President of debate team. Established Teen court in school, politically known in my school. Planning on majoring in Liberal Arts or Political Sci. So what do you think? Harvard or Columbia?</p>
<p>The stock answer would be Harvard. But Columbia is probably Harvard's equal in the liberal arts generally and its political science department was recently ranked the world's best in a London School of Economics study (see page 17): <a href="http://personal.lse.ac.uk/HIX/Working%20Papers/Hix-Rankings-30Jan04.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://personal.lse.ac.uk/HIX/Working%20Papers/Hix-Rankings-30Jan04.pdf</a>. As for the two cities, having grown up in Boston and lived in New York for years, I can tell you that if you adore NYC, you'll quickly tire of Boston.</p>
<p>Most people who make this decision choose Harvard, though our son was lucky enough to face this last year and chose Columbia. New York City was one reason (especially the music there), but another was the core curriculum. You really need to look at that aspect of Columbia and decide whether or not you like it, because it will take up a third of your courses. In your case, since the core is essentially liberal arts, you could major in poli sci, which is excellent at Columbia, and still get plenty of liberal arts. In his visits our son liked the social life at Columbia, but also admired how hard the students worked. Who knows how such impressions get made. In Harvard's favor, obviously, are its worldwide recognition (though Columbia's is good, Harvard will always be Harvard) and its incredible resources. If you're someone who goes in knowing just what you want to do, Harvard will give you tremendous opportunities and funding to do them. Our son, who doesn't know what he wants to do, was stressed at the idea of having to choose a major at the end of freshman rather than sophomore year. Part of the attraction of the core for him as possibly a science or math major is that he is being exposed to lots of liberal arts and that everyone is reading the same books at the same time. Although he didn't say it, I'd guess Harvard's prestige somehow worked against it for him. Call it reverse snobbery, or just that too many people -- including students he met at Harvard -- assumed he should choose Harvard because it's Harvard without giving him other reasons.</p>
<p>They're both great schools, obviously, and with smart student bodies. I hope that this gets you beyond just considering the prestige and that you get to make the choice!</p>
<p>One thing I've heard is that the core curriculum Americans might get in college, Europeans probably get in high school. It's an indictment of our system but you could find the core too rigid or repetitive for you. Still, if you're a cosmopolite or an international, Columbia's a marvelous place to be.</p>
<p>that's a very good point, dw. The reading list is on the Columbia website and is probably worth checking out for someone who came through a European school system.</p>
<p>Thank you sac. On the other hand, it can't hurt to read Plato or Aristotle twice! But Columbia's core is geared to the "average" American student who has, most likely, encountered largely junk in high school. I once saw a humorous comparison between Columbia and Harvard in which it was said you enter Columbia knowing nothing and learn everything, whereas you enter Harvard knowing everything and learn nothing. Incidentally, what's the state of undergraduate education at Berkeley? Its graduate schools certainly sparkle.</p>
<p>We would have been happy if our son had chosen Berkeley (my alma mater) over both Columbia and Harvard. He had some unreasonable objection to going to college five blocks from home. We're somewhat biased, perhaps, but we still believe Berkeley is a wonderful university and, even with rising tuition, an incredible bargain. The UC education abroad program is incomparable. However, like everyone else, we're concerned about the impact of the state's budget problems. My chief concern for undergrads would be availability of courses they need to graduate, especially in popular majors. Over the long term, if they are not able to fund grad students and to compete for the top ones, then top professors will leave. Same is true if they can't stay somewhat competitive in faculty salaries. These kinds of changes don't happen at once, though.<br>
Our feeling is that the main advantage of going to a place like Columbia over Berkeley is the greater possibility of faculty contact as an undergrad. At both places students have to make it happen, but it's easier to make it happen at Columbia. (We hope.) What was your experience in that regard?</p>
<p>Harvard vs Columbia tough choice, i think they both have great programs. But many kids abuse these universities for their recognition and its them in the end who wind up losing.</p>
<p>Personally, Columiba offers exactly what I want in a school. Sure, Harvard is diverse, but it doesn't have the worldly feel that I believe Columbia has.</p>
<p>I'm sure many are inclined to disagree since this IS the harvard forum ;)</p>
<p>Hi,
I'm from Copenhagen and I'm sort of faced with the same problem except more in regard to Graduate School. I'm starting an MPA at the London School of Economics in a month, and I have a chance of studying my second year at Columbia. Alternatively, I could hang in Copenhagen and try out for a Harvard scholarship that can get me into an MPP or an MPA.
Columbia or Harvard - what would you guys say?</p>
<p>Columbia vs Harvard isn't really a matter of better/worse . . . </p>
<p>I valued Columbia's education more, especially as a prospective English major (with possibly a future in journalism? maybe?). And the Core was something I'd been in love with since I was a sophomore; I'm a Humanities junky. </p>
<p>But in the end, I liked Harvard's student body a bit better. I was more comfortable there. And Harvard's further away (i live about halfway between NYC and Princeton, not at all far from either, which didn't work in Columbia or Princeton's favor.) And Harvard gave me more money; I'm not sure why Columbia gave so little, I've heard it's a little stingy . . . . And anyway, if I want to study journalism, I wouldn't really be doing it as a Columbia undergrad; so the grad school is still an option. I definitely think, as an undergrad, I'll be happier at Harvard.</p>
<p>Like with all the Ivies, all schools really, Harvard and Columbia have distinct personalities. Viewbooks don't always show that; you really, really have to visit and see for yourself.</p>
<p>For many years, the overwhelming majority of talented admits having a choice between the two have picked Harvard over Columbia.</p>
<p>Byerly: who cares what the majority of people do? These days many people choose Harvard based solely on its prestige and wind up unhappy. One should choose the school that fits them best. Harvard is an amazing school but so is Columbia.</p>
<p>You ignore the decisions made by the overwhelming majority of top students over the years at your peril. </p>
<p>You are free, of course, to make your own choice, but you should bear in mind that the academic superstars who have been free to choose have, very likely, been equally informed, and chose Harvard overwhelmingly.</p>
<p>Similarly, you may like the looks of a Cadillac at first blush, but you should carefully consider the fact that Mercedes, BMWs and Lexi rank higher in the minds of most experts and most buyers. Durability and resale value are important factors to consider - and initial appearances don't always measure up to overall value.</p>
<p>People who choose Harvard are about as "happy" as anyone in that they almost NEVER transfer, graduate at the highest rate of any college or university in the United States of America and rank near the very top by any measure of "alumni satisfaction."</p>
<p>And most of this 'Harvardians aren't happy' business is thrown out of the window when you actually visit the place. Despite what a few unhappy writers at the Crimson say, despite what Yalies say, I haven't met a single Harvardian who didn't like it there. Harvardians DO complain a lot, but it really is blown out of proportion. Because Yalies complain a lot too. And you know, not EVERYONE at Columbia enjoys the Core . . . </p>
<p>No place is perfect; you can't please everyone. Harvard is what you make of it. The students may not be as 'rah rah rah' as the students at Yale, but that doesn't mean that everyone hates the place. </p>
<p>The idea that cross admits choose Harvard because of the name is becoming a meaningless stereotype. It IS possible that people actually seek to choose the school that's best for them . . . .</p>
<p>
[quote]
You are free, of course, to make your own choice
[/quote]
Yup, that's exactly the point. And, your own choice has nothing to do with what the "overwhelming majority of top students" chose. There are even (believe it or not) top students who do not apply to Harvard.</p>
<p>
[quote]
not EVERYONE at Columbia enjoys the Core
[/quote]
Also true. No one should choose Columbia just because of NYC, because the core is a major part of what makes Columbia what it is.
[quote]
Harvard is what you make of it
[/quote]
This is true of both places, probably of all places. As I stated earlier, I think Harvard is a terrific place for a student who goes in really knowing what he or she wants to do there, and who can make use of its unique resources. Each college presents its own opportunities. Students should choose the place where they can see themselves reaching out and grabbing those opportunities. For some that may not be Harvard, for others it is. The point is that Columbia is a perfectly reasonable choice.</p>
<p>Sow what exactly is the core, and how does it compare to Harvard's?</p>
<p>Harvard doesn't really have a core, per se. </p>
<p>Read Ross Douthat's critique in The Atlantic (I can send you the article over email if you can't access it) about Harvard's lack of a core curriculum.</p>
<p>By the time the prior poster gets there (and if) the curriculum will be revised per an ongoing review. The Douthat critique (with which all would not agree, anyway, since not everybody loves a rigid core curriculum) is 5 yrs out of date.</p>