Harvard vs. Wesleyan vs. Carleton?

<p>I was accepted to Harvard early, offered a fantastic financial package, but am still not positive if i want to go. My main concern is about the academics/students- I would really like to attend a school where the students tend not to be competitive with each other concerning grades. I have sometimes heard Harvard's atmosphere referred to as "cutthroat" and this worries me a lot! Basically, I would just really like to enjoy college as much as possible, and am slightly worried that the Harvard environment might not suit me.</p>

<p>The two other schools that I am considering applying to are Carleton and Wesleyan. Does anyone have any insight as to how these two compare to Harvard in terms of sense of community and academic competitiveness? I am also concerned with one-on-one interactions with profs, although I understand that office hours really help with that at Harvard.</p>

<p>I would REALLY appreciate help! January 1st is creeping up on me!</p>

<p>What’s your prospective major? If you’re concerned about student-faculty interaction and you are a prospective Ec concentrator, yes, that is a very legitimate concern, and I encourage you to get other acceptances so you can compare at visit days. If you’re into more obscure things, like me, however, Harvard is unparalleled: I’m on “hey what up!” “let’s grab coffee” terms with one or two professors who are world leaders in my sub-sub-discipline. And that’s not really from my initiative–one of them made the effort to get to know me when I was a newly-minted freshman and, to use the internet slang term, kinda derpy. (Not all, or necessarily even most, brand new freshmen are so clueless, but I was! haha) Where you fall on the spectrum that ranges from “Folklore and Mythology” to “Ec” will deeply influence how much of an issue that will be for you. If you’re okay with waiting until high-level economics or government classes to have personal attention, I think there’s a lot of it; my impression is that you want more personal attention from day one, though. (Also a potential trouble spot: psychology.)</p>

<p>I don’t know where everybody gets the idea that Harvard students are cutthroat from. I haven’t met a single person who’s spent more than a day on campus who still thinks we’re cutthroat. We’re, indeed, acutely aware that there’s the potential for competitiveness regarding grades, so it’s just a verboten subject. We discuss our grades subjectively: “I did better than I’d hoped! Hooray!” or “I did worse than last time” or “…well, I didn’t fail.” (that last one being my go-to) My best friend here, after we’d known each other almost a year, mentioned that she was afraid of getting a B in one class (for her concentration, which is not mine. I think we’d be more tight-lipped if we were in the same concentration). I don’t know if she ended up getting that B, but that was the closest to a specific grade I’ve heard anyone say in my year and a half here. If you want an environment where you can cheerfully say “I got a B+ on that assignment, what did you get?” and get back the cheerful answer, “Oh, a B,” Harvard ain’t it. If you try doing that here, you’re almost guaranteed to get either “oh, um, I did well,” or “oh, um, not very well.” On the other hand, however, that means we are absolutely not a place where people actually get competitive/nosy about your grades: the “what did you get?” “pretty good” “no but specifically” “um, not comfortable sharing” “come on, why, I’ll tell you mine,” “fine, an A-” “HA HA TRIUMPH I HAVE AN A” thing will never happen to you.</p>

<p>And then your last concern was having fun in college, right? I do think both Carleton and Wesleyan are “cuddlier,” (stupid word, can’t think of a better), in offering you cookies and taking thorough care of you, but that sort of semi-parental attention also decreases the amount of independence the students get. I like the greater freedom Harvard gives you. There’s still a pretty good support system (and cookies!), it’s just slightly less pervasive, I think. Basically, I find Harvard’s approach to things perfect! It’s not a fun place for everybody, true, and that’s so personal that I can’t speak to whether you’d find it fun, but I’m personally having the time of my life. :)</p>

<p>I don’t think it would necessarily hurt you to compare at visit days, though… I definitely shared a lot of your concerns before then, and having other options made me more relaxed if it turned out that I didn’t like the school’s vibe.</p>

<p>Building on exultationsy’s post – which sounds on target to me – I’d agree that cutthroat isn’t really a fair description of Harvard, even though you will certainly find some individuals who are very competitive. </p>

<p>Harvard is a great place for independent, self-starters who are willing to take initiative to find what they want – courses, activities, people. If anything, Harvard has become somewhat more “cuddly” in recent years, with bonding activities the first week of freshman year and lots of support structures in place. Harvard vs. LAC’s like Wesleyan and Carlton is ike city vs. small town. The city has more options but you will never know everybody and it can be more challenging to find your way around. </p>

<p>If LAC’s are attractive to you, is there a reason you’re not also considering Amherst and Williams?</p>

<p>@opensecret I am looking at Wes primarily for its student body (diverse/artistic) and for its size (about 3,000 I believe). In these ways I found it be fairly different from most LACs including Williams and Amherst, which is why I’m drawn to it. To be honest, I’m not the biggest fan of super “cuddly” small schools (ruled out Carleton because of this, actually), so thats why Wes was really an exception!</p>

<p>@extulsionsy, i am so glad to hear your take on things! It is a relief to finally to hear the truth about Harvard from someone who actually has the authority to speak of it haha. I am happy to hear about the lack of competition and I do think that I would enjoy the freedom of a larger school. </p>

<p>As for majors, I will most likely be studying English, although I have heard that Harvard may introduce a liberal arts version of an architecture major which definitely appeals to me. </p>

<p>Basically, I was interested in Wes (ruled out Carleton this afternoon) because of the opportunities in the arts and (potentially) a more relaxed student body. I do believe that I will end up applying, just as a safety measure, but I have a good feeling I might end up at Harvard :)</p>

<p>thank you both so much! this was incredibly helpful</p>

<p>Oh oh oh Harvard’s English department is so good! And the undergraduate architecture program also sounds really interesting. I don’t know much about that one, so switching back to English: they’re usually the happiest of the 5 largest departments (which take up ~50% of the student body), and they are beyond nice. I like my department a lot and am not considering switching, but English might be “objectively” better. The current head of the English department (or Director of Undergraduate Studies, can never remember the difference), who’s probably going to have his term end by the time you get here (I think the terms for administrative departmental positions usually last ~3 years?) is this charming elderly Australian man named James Simpson who taught at Oxford or Cambridge for many years and is very Oxford/Cambridge/tweed. He taught a fairly large gen ed that I took, but I went to office hours twice, I think, and at the end of the course he was like “keep in touch!” and I was like “wait, actually? I’m not majoring in your subject…” but I am pretty sure he actually meant it. I haven’t, and I feel bad, but am probably going to run into him sometime next semester and apologize. Anyway, he was beyond charming, in that twinkly British-empire-accented way, and I felt that he was approximately representative of the entire department. They give away free books every year also! To everybody, not just concentrators.</p>

<p>I think it’s a good idea for you to apply to Wesleyan just in case, but I’m glad to have been helpful :)</p>