<p>Look, I’m for opening up a lot more seats in MED schools and for lowering costs, given the future earning potential of docs under the new insurance run system. There is going to be a shortage of doctors, at this pace, regardless. </p>
<p>That said, I’m not talking about “admissions,” I’m talking about the attrition rate of URMs you claim. </p>
<p>We need more doctors, not less, and not the same number, either. Seems like there’s room for both. </p>
<p>Hey mavant, do you have graduation rates by race too, mate? It will be interesting. I hope people who get in through quotas are then filtered out by the exams and certifications. I want my doctors to be freaking creme de la creme as they are taking care of my health for crying out loud!</p>
<p>Zekesima, please stop attributing YOUR misinterpretations as my words. My original words have not changed. Their meaning has not changed. Students who gain acceptance into medical school but fail out are not physicians…and hence, they will never serve their communities in practicing medicine even if they wanted.</p>
<p>As a bar to clear it strikes me as quite reasonable. In fact, too high if you want to get all the really good athletes, musicians, authors, actors and whatever else. Indeed it IS too high to get them all - there are accepted students at H who score lower. Presumably they had something else to offer.</p>
<p>An interesting note: “recruited athletes, on average, scored 173 points lower on the SATs than their non-recruited classmates” - THAT is lower than 2100. </p>
<p>Oh Look! What we actually have with medical school is a lack of african american men even applying! Don’t know why you see this dwindling group as competition, but hey, it’s your story @mavant. </p>
<p>To get applicants, matriculants and graduates by race…you need to compare initial matriculants with residency applicants since only medical school graduates can get residency positions. </p>
<p>Well, actually, both of the links I posted deal with race in all of it. And it seems that the biggest issue in Med School right now is the fact that not enough African American men and woman are applying. Hispanic Americans apply more often now than in the past and they finish at or around the same rate as whites (of course many hispanics are white, so I have no clue how this is even a demographic, but it is). All of this is verifiable in the sources I cited.</p>
<p>Ok, so 6.7 pct of African Americans and 4.3 pct of Hispanics drop out of Med School compared to 0.7 pct of Whites and 0.9 pct of Asians. Thanks guys. Not surprising given the stark bias in admission standards for med school by race. Wow!</p>
<p>Yeah but let’s be fair OHMom. When an Asian kid is just captain of tennis team, it’s not good enough, but when non-Asian kid just scores 2100 it is enough? They both represent the same percentile. Either both is good as a cutoff or neither is. I don’t know but that’s what seems fair to me, and frankly I think neither should qualify for a top school like Harvard. If the musicians and athletes want to get in, they should do better in the SATs, just as high scoring Asian kids are asked to do better in ECs. This is assuming that ECs are just as important as academics, and like I said before I don’t think they are, at least from what ex-Ivy adcoms tell us. It’s really biased towards academics.</p>
<p>User51969 That is what I was trying to convey to mathyone. Everyone knows what one needs to achieve on SAT and GPA, but no one can state what is doing “better on ECs” means. Because that is undefined by the school so absent a Nobel prize or a Fields Medal, what constitutes good ECs for admission purposes. </p>
<p>No. @User51969. you are thinking of ECs like “oh, I joined this club.”</p>
<p>The ECs that the Harvard applicants are getting accepted for are at a whole other level. They are the best in the country at X,Y, and Z. They are not just a really good artist. They are objectively, recognizably exceptional. They are not just “good” at crew, but they will row on the Harvard Team. They have been working on something you’ve never dreamed of, and it’s usually not “after school.” Or even in school.</p>
<p>poetgrl If you are talking special awards as ECs then believe it or not Asians will also dominate this area. GMT showed that in the Duke admission process Asians scored the highest in EC. I know this is anecdotal, but most of the winners of debate, math olympics, knowledge bowl, science awards and even poetry and art are awarded to Asian in our high school.</p>
<p>poetgrl, you are posting clips incongruent with your arguments. The AAMC has done numerous studies correlating MCAT scores and graduation rates. Unlike the SAT, which has a low correlation with college-level excellence, the MCAT is a good predictor of Medical Board Exam pass rates. Despite this, for the sake of diversity, seats are given to URMs with borderline MCATs while Asians with better scores are denied. Even with this disparity, there are still not enough African Americans meeting the lowest floor acceptable.</p>
<p>Looking at the historically Black medical schools, Howard Univ and Meharry MC, their performance on the medical board exams have been woefully inadequate. When they started admitting White and Asian applicants in small numbers, overall performance rose. Coincidence? </p>
<p>I won’t even touch the next level of racial disparity concerning which programs are on probation for medical errors…lol. </p>
<p>Frankly I don’t think it’s ECs that are keeping Asians out. It’s academics, as Asians are made to compete with other Asians. That’s how a racial quota works. Whether that is legal or not is up to the courts to decide. (Personally I think there should be a death match in the thunder dome, two go in one goes out kinda which will be broadcast on ESPN as the Collegiate Hunger Games. )</p>
<p>Anyway, I don’t think anyone on this forum can have any reasonable clue about what really happens at Harvard, what is legal, and what the courts will say. We are all just shooting breeze here. I do think that the USSC with it’s current right wing tilt is moving in the direction of banning racial quotas. But who knows? And this is all my guess anyway, I don’t sit on the Harvard adcom, but neither does anyone else here so hahaha my guess is just as valid as anyone else’s.</p>
<p>I must say that I am happy that I always worked in an industry (management consulting, top echelon) where intellect is everything, race is nothing, and all hiring decisions are quantified, and then quantified some more. It’s really a wonderful place for eggheads like me and it pays very well too!!! :)</p>
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