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<p>Do you have proof of this, or is this hypothetical?</p>
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<p>If Caltech was as easy to graduate from as Harvard, then you might have a case. </p>
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<p>I do as I consider California’s system of education to be entirely dysfunctional, and probably the poster child for a failed system. Take a look at where they WERE in terms of education and where California is today in the entire K-16. </p>
<p>But, I understand that from your distant vantage point, the situation might appear different from one who happens to live in walking distance. And I understand that the systems you are currently seeing IRL present you with a system that has different values. </p>
<p>Periwinkle the NYT article supports the mismatch theory. How many positions for “heads of major art museums” are there and can you provide any reference to them making $$millions?</p>
<p>I never said every student needs to be in STEM. I stated that if a student wanted to graduate with STEM degree that academic mismatch will affect their likelihood of reaching this goal. </p>
<p>xiggi I understand the graduation rate at Harvard is phenomenal, but it is not so great if kids who wanted to be a STEM graduates transferred to a less challenging major because of academic mismatch. The intrinsic value of a Fine Arts degree is to be lauded, but not if one is doing it because she felt compelled to leave her intended and desired STEM major. </p>
<p>Leaders do not equal geniuses. At the risk of being banned, I will say look at some of our past Presidents and world leaders for confirmation of that. Some geniuses are good and add to that yeasty, creative environment colleges want. </p>
<p>It is not a “failure” if someone leaves a STEM major and goes to another major. What an odd way of thinking.</p>
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Do you have the actual statistics?
So it is hard to get into UNC from OOS but is it equally hard for Asians, White, Blacks … ?</p>
<p>@Periwinkle, it’s hypothetical. But from published anecdotes, it seems the admissions readers perceive attributes differently according to what race the applicant is:
<a href=“Secrets of Dartmouth Admissions Office”>Secrets of Dartmouth Admissions Office;
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<p>You know I’m data driven. Show me the data. Maybe this lawsuit will squeeze it out of one of these schools.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl it is if that was the desired degree but the student transferred to another major because of academic mismatch. Had the same student attended a match school, she would have obtained her desired degree. </p>
<p>The above quote was from poetgrl.</p>
<p>Touching that you are concerned VOR about what a kid with “only” a Classics degree would do. You thinking a kid with such a degree wouldn’t be well off is just silly. Nice to know you measure success in terms of the amount of your paycheck. And I am wondering how she got that degree without having a “typical Classics curriculum” as you stated. I am pretty sure Amherst didn’t allow her shortcuts so she could also fulfill her med school prerequisites. And FWIW, she is a URM and didn’t steal anybody’s spot. :-S </p>
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<p>As long as they waste another seat to a Houston QB a la Luck, all will be well. That, or wasting a seat to a proud sibling from Houston! </p>
<p>TPG, on a more serious note, why do you think that Stanford has been less of a target than HYP in terms of claims of discrimination? </p>
<p>VOR, let’s suppose there are majors ABCDEFGHIJKLM. </p>
<p>Let’s suppose Asian students tend to gravitate towards majors JKLM. Whether that gravitation is due to any kind of inherent/inherited natural genetic affinity for that subject, or is prompted or enhanced or guided by cultural factors valuing majors JKLM, is irrelevant. It is what it is. Are you with me?</p>
<p>Harvard doesn’t want a student body of only JKLM. They want to fill majors ABCDEFGHI as well.</p>
<p>Do you not agree that Harvard’s desire – which is motivated by the desire to fill all of their majors – will wind up “hurting” Asians in this hypothetical? Is this wrong on Harvard’s part? Should they be forced to convert to an all JKLM school instead?</p>
<p>In other words, should the interests and the qualifications of the applicants determine the majors that Harvard “should” offer, or is it ok for Harvard to say we believe in the inherent value of ABCDEFGHIA and we want to maintain and preserve it?</p>
<p>You seem to think “Harvard should only admit the smartest people” without regard to the fact that they need / want ot fill their other majors, too.</p>
<p>Harvard, like any school, has a finite number of seats and a whole bunch of quotas it has to fill. It needs a certain number of football players. It needs a certain number of potential French and Greek and Art History majors (unless it wants to lay off professors of French, greek and Art History). It needs a certain number of boys/girls (which is a big time quota). It needs a certain number of engineering majors – not too many but not too few. It needs a certain number of URMs. It needs a certain number of kids from Alaska and also Alabama. It needs a certain number of full payors (which is where legacies come in).</p>
<p>Harvard drowns in applications from high stat kids. They allocate seats to kids who will check a lot of different boxes. Your chances will be less if you happen to come from a demographic that Harvard sees in droves. Valedictorians and perhaps high stat Asian kids. Could be that the droves of Asian kids don’t check some of the various boxes that Harvard needs to check (like Art History majors or full payors). Or it could be a quota designed (like the history on Jewish admissions) to keep the campus from tilting too much toward some particular group. Such a quota might be illegal, but it would be impossible to prove. Harvard is way too smart to do that in a way that could be detected and proven.</p>
<p>xiggi - My guess, thoroughly unencumbered by data, is that Stanford has a higher % of Asians than HYP, and so that gets taken as evidence that they are less discriminatory, though it doesn’t really prove much because Stanford is within easy striking distance of half of the nation’s Asian population and HYP isn’t. And I would hypothesize that the applicant pool at Stanford is more heavily Asian than the applicant pools at HYP, just because it’s in CA.</p>
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<p>Maybe they decided to be attorneys or CEOs or professors or world leaders or write books or direct movies or any of the zillion things you can do with a non-STEM degree. The fact that you think smart people automatically choose STEM and anyone with a 2100 can’t cut it says more about your own biases than it does about students who choose to major in one of the several dozen non-STEM majors offered at Harvard, @voiceofreason66 . It may also shed some light on why Harvard prefers a class that is not entirely made up of STEM kids (though why many of those would choose Harvard over MIT or Caltech is a bit of a mystery to me in any case). </p>
<p>VOR, if Harvard admits all of these so-undeserving URMs, why do you want to go there so badly? I mean, if I <em>truly</em> thought a school was making stupid decisions and admitting the undeserving URM’s/legacies/athletes/development cases and there were hardly any “true” smart deserving kids to be found - well, I wouldn’t want my child to join that cesspool. Yet, amazingly enough, Harvard does these things and you’d still cut off your right arm to go there. Why is that? What’s so special about Harvard? </p>
<p>PG, perhaps, but Stanford also admitted and enrolled almost as many Hispanics (272) as Asians (325) in 2013. See <a href=“Stanford Common Data Set | University Communications”>Contact Us | University Communications. On campus, you might see 1200 Latinos next to 1300 Asians. Based on 2013-2014 enrollment, the percentage of Asian is around 20 percent. </p>
<p>At Berkeley, just next door, the number of Asians at 9,000 is three times the number of Hispanics. One might think that some might tilt at that windmill!</p>
<p>What is the comparable ratio at Harvard? </p>
<p>OHmom My point went right over your head. You realize had the 2100 SAT student gone to another school she would have more likely achieved her goal. Nor did I ever state that everyone had to be in STEM. I was referencing those students who desired to get a STEM degree, Black, White, Asian Hispanic. The point was that academic mismatch even if the students are at the top of the curve has its negative impacts.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl Yours is another typical all Asians study JKLM and not ABCDEFGHI. Like everyone else, Asians have interests in a wide range of college majors. I agree with you that quite a bit study STEM, but many more study a wide variety of majors. So you argument holds no water. If you have any DATA please I would welcome it.</p>
<p>I have no desire to attend Harvard. In fact I never applied there even though I had the stats. I am discussing this because I do not like discrimination, have you not read the prior posts. </p>
<p>VOR, you can set up a guidestar account, which will give you free access to reports on nonprofits, including art museums. 990s typically lag the current year by 2 years. </p>
<p>Major museums include the Getty, MFA, the Met, etc. </p>
<p>Have fun. </p>
<p>Here’s a newspaper article <a href=“http://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/arts/2014/10/09/dia-salaries-execuitves-raises/17003375/[/url]:”>http://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/arts/2014/10/09/dia-salaries-execuitves-raises/17003375/:</a></p>
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<p>More salaries listed at the link. Note that these people probably serve on other boards, including corporate boards, so these salaries are baselines.</p>