I think you misunderstood @Data10. They are saying that most students who DO apply to very selective schools, who would be full pay at said institutions, will likely have cheaper alternatives due to their HS records.
1 Like
I think the complaints are a result of a generational shift in the expectation of entitlements that started with the millennials and has only intensified in the shadow of cancel/victim culture. They are unrelated to the level of selectivity or difficulty. Entitled folks who did not win the prize used to raise the same concerns back then (or worse around privilege and exclusion) as we have seen in this thread; those folks were just less prevalent and did not have social media platforms to disseminate their discontent. Welcome to real life: you win some, you lose some. You are entitled only to basic human dignity in life, with which a top-ranked private college has nothing to do.
âFull-payâ families are a group unto themselves. Theyâre the ones applying EA/ED; theyâre the ones with expensive athletic hooks; theyâre the ones with legacies that go back generations. They are not the meat and potatoes of the admissions cycle. Iâm saying that there are many thousands of well-off families who apply to selective colleges for purely economic reasons: in the hope that they will offer need-based aid packages that are at least as competitive as their in-state flagships and thereby give their kids a chance to study in or near major metropolitan areas, access to internships, networking - the Great American Dream.
1 Like
I actually believe people with that mindset are very much in the minority. I donât think that they want a trophy for participating. They have been led to believe they won the game. With high GPAs, high test scores, great ECs, and the lack of transparency in admissions, how can you blame them. The piece theyâre missing is that there are FAR too many who did everything right, for the too few slots they think they need to be successful.
6 Likes
Thatâs my sense as well. D22âs school has had pretty consistent overall outcomes at âtopâ US colleges over the years (including 2021), although the colleges with the most enrollees from her school shift a little (within the top stratum) from year to year. So, the headline rejection rate (e.g., 96.3% at Harvard this year) might not be the most relevant one for the top students. That said, these schools are still quite hard to get into!
Well thatâs an oxymoron. âWell offâ families do not get need-based aid.
4 Likes
Well thatâs an oxymoron. âWell offâ families do not get need-based aid.
Oh, God. Do you really believe that?
1 Like
Define âwell off.â You donât just randomly get need-based aid because you want it. It is determined by the FAFSA output. Maybe youâre confusing that with merit aid. Many of the most selective schools do not give that.
1 Like
It certainly has and will continue to be so long as applicants are led to equate a T20 admission with success in life, or worse, oneâs worth as a human being.
1 Like
@Creaky, I would love for you to give me something to work with rather than eye-roll reactions. I genuinely want an open discussion with differing points of view, so please feel free to provide dialogue. 
2 Likes
I gave you a cowboy hat emoji, just because Iâve never used it, for anything. 
2 Likes
Need-based aid at Harvard can be offered to students whose parentsâ income exceeds $200,000, according to Net Price Calculator . So it can depend on what âwell offâ means.
1 Like
Exactly, but it isnât subjective. Each institution will set their number. At nearly all of them itâs an amount that will be pretty to exceed by physicians, lawyers, etc.
The suggestion was that âwell offâ families routinely hunt for need-based aid at selective schools. As a âwell offâ family, I know how wrong that assertion is.
4 Likes
$200k is about the 90th percentile household income (nearly three times the median) in the US. In the expensive area of San Jose, CA, it is about the 66th percentile household income (around two and a half times the median).
Is that âwell offâ?
2 Likes
When I read âwell offâ I think of families like my own, not Bezos wealthy, but enough income to send our son to a private HS, have his college fully paid for in savings, and to travel a bit.
That said, the term âwell offâ is completely subjective. What is not subjective is the number at which each institution will grant need-based aid. It might not be public facing, but they have a number. Harvardâs threshold is far higher than most. Stanford is $150k, Cornell is $60k.
2 Likes
Using Cornellâs net price calculator from Financial Aid Calculators | Financial Aid for a student with married parents earning $61k, the net price is $10,748 after Cornell grants of $65,269. I.e. income levels higher than $60k may get financial aid at Cornell.
Of course, the threshold where financial aid is excluded is $0 at many of these colleges if your parents are unmarried and uncooperative.
3 Likes
There are 16.7M+ undergraduate students in the U.S.
There are a combined 202,847 students enrolled in the Top 20 schools and Top 15 LACs.
What percentage of the overall college applicatons go to the Top 20/Top 15 LACs? How many of those submitted applications are complete âfliersâ submitted by students just rolling the dice with no shot at admission?
The top schools are luxury experiences. The vast majority of people could care less what these schools do, or how they fare. More people in the U.S. can point out where Myanmar is on a map than can point to Bowdoin, Grinnell and Swarthmore.
4 Likes
While that is undoubtedly true, a disproportionate number of influential Americans in the upper middle class and upper class do remain interested in and invested in access to T20 schools, and those schools wield a disproportionate amount of power in higher education.
2 Likes
Me!! Iâm not sure I would describe us as âwell-offâ but we live on one income that is higher than the median in our area, we have a home that is above median in our area, D participated in an expensive travel sport, and we have no debt other than a small fraction of our house. D20 is attending a highly ranked, meets-full need LAC (not in a metropolitan area, but rural) and our bill is less than the cost of our state schools. She will have no loans when she graduates and we are able to cover our portion without any, too.
Yeah. Iâm still not sure why my âassertionâ made so many people lose their minds. Iâve been on this forum for over ten years and the vast majority of Chance Me threads are from people just like you. And me, for that matter.
1 Like