<p>I am completely sympathetic. My son did accepted at a local school with full tuition scholarship and another local with a $6K commuter scholarship making it just affordable, but he wants the sleep away experience. As did all of them. So we pay. But there are a lot of schools that would have been affordable if he wanted to commute. Some were out of reach in terms of selectivity, but most would have been doable financially. He just didn’t want those schools. </p>
<p>What will you do differently with your younger kids? What would you have done differently here? What did you expect in terms of money from the UCs and from the private schools in terms of fin aid and merit money? </p>
<p>Congratulations to your son who did get into some terrific schools. Both Carleton and Bowdoin are top of the line so you are getting what you pay for in either situation. He seems to be the sort of kid that would do well anywhere. </p>
<p>My son’s close friend is going to UCLA with a $5k merit award, turning down Bowdoin for it. He was turned down by Williams. Sometimes there is no telling what this system seeks. He is an international student, Korean, and his counselors didn’t think he would have a chance in Hades of getting into a UC. Berkeley did turn him down. And of the privates CA schools, USC accepted him with no money offer, Pomona rejected him, Claremont WLed him and Stanford rejected him.</p>
<p>For the UCs maybe some of his AP classes can count as credit. CC classes during the summers. Also if you have health insurance you can waive the health insurance fee, at Berkeley this is about $1600 a year. Buy textbooks used. Moving off campus after the first year usually lowers costs.</p>
<p>At Bowdoin and Carleton you might also be able to waive health insurance. Not all schools do.</p>
<p>College expenses definitely seem to be excluding the middle class
Best of luck!</p>
<p>We are considered rich. But my son had to turn down 3 colleges without even a glance because we simply could not afford them. Didn’t dwell a second on them. No scholarship made it impossible. A third stayed on the table purely because it was doable as a commuter school since it gives a generous commuter allowance. A fourth was in the running till the very end due to a grant it offered that made it just affordable.</p>
<p>Also, you have no idea what kind of aid schools offer until after acceptance, so how does one plan for that?</p>
<p>that isn’t really true. You can use EFC calculators to get an idea of how much your EFC will be for both federal and institutional methodologies. If your income is 6 figures, then chances are your EFC is going to be 25-33% of income (rough estimate). You can also look online to see how schools do at meeting need. It’s rather common knowledge in Calif that UCs really only give “free need-based aid” to people who qualify for Pell, Cal Grants, or Blue and Gold. </p>
<p>What is your FAFSA EFC? </p>
<p>** Bowdoin offered the best aid, followed by Carleton…
We will make Bowdoin or Carleton work somehow.*</p>
<p>Bowdoin will cost you $20k per year. You say that you’ll make it work “somehow” and we all sure hope that you do. However, that begs the question…how much did you think you were going to have to pay each year for your child’s college…even if he went to a UC? A UC is about $12k for fees (tuition), another $1k for books, and even if Room and Board were only $7k, that would be $20k right there. </p>
<p>I think that is really the problem. I understand that it’s hard for your family to come up with $20k per year, but I don’t understand how/why you ever thought that you’d be expected to pay less than at least $20k per year without pursuing schools that give significant merit scholarships.</p>
<p>Again, obviously we all want it to work out for your son, but hopefully without needing to take out big Parent loans. :)</p>
<p>@Carlsbaddad - You know, there are two ways to look at this. I live in another high cost of living area, New York, and seem to have an income similar to you – similar low six figure “middle class” income (I know, I know, it’s not middle class in the rest of the country).
Here’s my perspective – my kid applied and got into Berkeley last year, and really wanted to go. However, the $55K price tag for out of staters made this an impossibility.</p>
<p>However, here in New York we have one of the last public systems that charges a reasonable rate to out of staters. It’s about $20K for instate and $28K out of state at SUNY Stony Brook, for example. On one hand, I’m glad that we can still offer a reasonable alternative to all students, but on the other hand as a taxpayer of the state of New York, it irks me that other states don’t offer the same to our students. </p>
<p>CBadDad, I do feel your pain. I think almost everyone here on this forum went through the same sticker shock at one time. Good luck to your kid in whatever his choice is, and if you’re like me use this lesson to start preparing your younger kids for what to expect way early. (My eighth grader has already said that since she might want to go to medical or veterinary school she will want to keep herself debt free – I guess my rants haven’t fallen on deaf ears!)</p>
<p>As another NYer, I am envious of how CA got their state system on which are SUNYs are modeled, into such prestigious schools. Also your state taxes cannot be anywhere as high as ours, nor the local taxes. My brother lives in the Bay area, and he choked when I told him what our real estate taxes are. But then you guys voted down local and real estate taxes, and so your schools are an issue, whereas our K-12 system is considered the best in the country. But our SUNYs, are not up there. I notice your son did not include our very reasonably priced SUNY Geneseo, a small LAC, Honors college on his list, and few kids outside of NY will despite the low cost. Our state colleges and universities are just not up there yet. But the prices are very affordable especially compared to the UCs.</p>
<p>The main problem with the UCs is their room and board, is what I am told. The tuition and fees are not the problem But in going to UC Berkelely or anywhere outside of commuting range means, someone has to give the kid 3 squares and a cot, and that ain’t gonna be the tax payers. Too bad he did not get into UCSD, though from your posts, I would guess he would not want to commute even there, but he probably has a number of commutable colleges available. Just didn’t want them. </p>
<p>Both Carlton and Bowdoin are top flight, and you are getting a shot at either of them at a bargain price. I’m actually surprised you got that much fin aid from them given they use PROFILE and consider home equity values. Usually EFC is a lot lower than the PROFILE figure, and usually the UCs would give some financial aid to those with a EFC of $30K or so, especially someone who is as desirable as your son. I know a number of folks who got their kids in both schools and they did not get a cent in terms of financial aid.</p>
<p>carlsbaddad-sticker shock is exactly what it is! Just finishing up with S1 at a UC. You will find it is doable on your income if you do not have a lot of debt. You will need to drive older cars than what you’re probably used to, eat out very little, and buy almost no luxuries. Carlsbad is a hard place to accomplish this as it is so expensive and people tend to live well. If you have three kids, you may need to sacrifice and move to a cheaper home. I know this sounds unreal, but what I have learned 4 years later, with S2 starting college next year–it is reality:(</p>
<p>OP - I think some of the perspective you have to offer should serve as a warning to the rest of us; the cuts to education in CA have been steep and the measures to regain funds through other means have been drastic - which leaves you wondering why you as a taxpayer are subsidizing the education no longer available to your own high performing child.</p>
<p>State schools often are the cheapest option - but no longer in CA, and for how much longer in other areas of the country?</p>
<p>cpt - I understand your point about tax money subsidizing room and board but I don’t think you are taking the perspective of the school fully into account. No school, public or private, wants to be a commuter school - it lowers their status and that in turn impacts the type of students they can attract. Just as they compete with private schools for fancy dorms and facilities, they cannot be seen as a commuter campus and appeal to the same group of high performing students.</p>
<p>As to the public vs. private arguments - I have seen kids disappointed by both. Schools decide independently how to spend their money, publics often cut and consolidate programs when the economy is bad but private schools also allocate funds as they see fit, which may or may not be obvoious to the student when school shopping. The private school may be more inclined to maintain a department that is small and less profitable but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are lavishing their resources on it (as students may discover after enrolling). Sometimes the state school is the better deal, sometimes the private school is the better deal; it’s good to shop with a critical eye and keep your options open.</p>
<p>I feel for you OP - your location and the current economy give you every reason to be unhappy, and unhappier than most as I think your situation is the harbinger of things to come for others who live in academic climates that are still less hostile to the natives.</p>
<p>As for the OP’s primary question, it is very possible that in CA and in a number of other states FA awards have dropped. I believe I’ve seen more posts with low aid awards from the CAs than usual. Not being from that side of the US I don’t know what the tax situation and the support for the UCs are. My brother lives in the Bay are and he is not depending on the UCs for his kids.</p>
<p>Bchan, perhaps UCSD used your premise to deny the OP’s son. The school wants have fewer commuters. So he can go to Berkeley or UD or other UC school but have to pay room and board charges. This reasoning is part of the diversity that is often desired in many private schools. It can often be far more difficult to gain entry to a local college trying to get more of a national rep. I’ve seen that a lot around here. In that sense our SUNY system is working since all of the SUNYs tend to have a high commuter % and are very much NY schools in that there are not many OOSers here. It is a delicate balance. But the fact remains that if at all affordable, you gotta feed and shelter your own kid, and your own kid s/he is until age 24 under most circumstances. There isn’t enough money to go around as it is. The federal monies allow just about enough for every kid to be able to go to a local state college if he commutes. The rest of the tab is on the parents, or if the kid can find a school willing to pay for him. Not federal or state monies, but college and private organization funds.</p>
<p>I don’t know that OP really got his original questions addressed well. </p>
<p>Fin Aid has dropped like a rock (IMHO). </p>
<p>We have two in college. One went east in fall of 2007 – Thank God that was just before the crash of 2008. He is finishing with some debt but it is reasonable. He should be fine. </p>
<p>S2 is attending a public, in state. His/our costs are escalating rapidly (like 16% up for next fall being predicted). </p>
<p>Please sit your own student down and run through the numbers. There are things he can do to minimize the pain (work on campus, be an RA and earn dorm room, take AP tests or CLEP tests or on line courses to earn a few hours, and generally choose the cheap option in everything from dorm space to red eye flights to meal plans). </p>
<p>I do feel very badly for OP. If he was keeping an eye on how neighborhood teens were doing, then the kids from four years ago were working hard but getting by (mostly). Suddenly the landscape changes and the Fin Aid is drying up everywhere. </p>
<p>Sadly, I think it will get worse before it gets better.</p>
<p>A lot of factors at play here. The states are all hurting for money and there are cuts and more cuts. Not just CA either. Then you have the endowments that are not at the levels expected. More cuts in FA from that. Also as the money is diminishing, the cost for college are still going up. Even when the economy was at its worst, colleges were increasing their costs by about 4%. So costs going up and the money in barrel diminishing. It is a problem. </p>
<p>Ten years ago, we were gung ho about our kids getting to go where ever they pleased. They just had to get accepted. Now we have to limit the cost we can pay. If more families start doing this, maybe some colleges will make cost adjustments lower. What I’ve seen this year, is that the more selective schools have become even more selective and expensive than ever. I’m seeing COA figures edging towards $60K now. It scares me terrbily as I still have one just starting HS.</p>
<p>Megmno, I agree with you and urge you to contact friends and contact your state senators and represenatives, and DEMAND that the SUNYs start caring about residency. Our kids are at a BIG disadvantage. Other states care about residency BIGTIME. Not NY. Demand that they make public instate v. OSS SATs by school. Demand that they care about residents. Like other states. Demand that the NY medical schools do not accept OOS, like many other states.</p>
<p>NY SUNYs already have a very low rate of OOS kids. That has been a problem in the system gettting national recognition. Look at those OOS figures. Not a lot more money we are going to be squeezing out of so few kids. And just a few years ago, NY drastically increased the OOS premium. I’d like the SUNYs, the 4 cornerstone school work at becoming more prestigious, and the other local colleges more affordable for instate kids. I’d like to see the money to the privates turned over to the state schools so that this can be done. </p>
<p>I love what CA has done with their state schools in that the top UCs are truly top national schools and many CA families aspire to them over most if not all private colleges. That is the model that the SUNYs have, but we have not gotten there. But we have avoided the cost surge that the CA schools have though room and board are also pretty danged high for SUNYs as well. My son saved a lot of money when he went off campus. But in CA, when you are talking areas like San Diego, Oakland, LA, the rent is sky high… It’s not like you can find cheap places to live there. My friend is heading out to Oakland with her D who is going to be in a grad program in Oakland, and it does not look good in terms of finding an affordable place to live. So the dorms have a reason to cost that much. Rent in Buffalo and a lot of the SUNY locales can be dirt cheap, and yet the dorms are expensive.</p>
<p>I am aware that the CSU system has a priority of offering admissions to local residents, but I have never heard that the UC system gives priority to or even considers place of residence as a criteria for admittance. Otherwise, UCLA could easily fill just with L.A. kids, or Berkeley with Bay area kids, which is not the case at all.
The OP’s son was accepted at several UC’s, but not the one he wanted, happens all the time. There has never been any provision that your kid will be accepted at the one nearest your home, as far as I know. The tuition and the number of OOS and Internationals has been raised to a level comparable to Michigan, Virginia, and other states with outstanding public universities. Like it or not, they are helping to pay the bills big time. International students bring tons of desperately needed money to all the universities and colleges in this country.</p>
<p>NY needs to raise the quality, reputation and desirability of the SUNYs in order to attract more OOS kids to these schools. In doing so, it will keep more kids in state and in the system, instead of losing them to other schools including OOS publics. My son is going to an OOS public. He looked at the SUNYs including the one his brother attended, and they just didn’t strike him right. Loves the school spirit, amenities of Pitt, so there he goes. My cousin who lives in PA did ask me about the NY state schools, and I reluctantly had to tell her she was better off with her in state options in terms of quality and rep. If we lived in Ohio or VA, it would have been a different story. CA, I think, is pricing itself out of the OOS market with its costs as high as private schools but without the amenities that most offer. </p>
<p>I tend to agree with Tptshorty. We know some administrators in a UC and they are concerned with so many commuters going to that school. So living right in the back yard of a UC could be a disadvantage, sad to say, about a state school, but I guess that’s why CA has such top rate state schools. The Cal States are supposed to be very fine state schools and would be at the level of many flagship state schools, but they are overshadowed with the very high profiles of some of the UCs. Price, yes, is a problem there, but from what I understand, the cost of living in terms of rent is very high all around in CA, so no surprise really that the rents in Oakland are up there. NY has a lot of nerve charging what it does per sq foot in dorm rooms in cities that are literally low rent. CA is expensive in terms of housing and that goes for the sleep away college too.</p>
<p>The UC’s are where they are because there aren’t as many large, private colleges and universities with long histories and big endowments to compete with them in their own backyard. And they aren’t afraid to raise their rates and go toe to toe with the east coast Ivies for cost. All other considerations aside, sunshine is appealing - 18 year olds like the idea of college and beach combined. </p>
<p>Once the SUNY’s start seeing themselves as national players (marketing that way, charging that way, admitting students with national recognition in mind and not favoring their own in state kids as much) they can be just like the UC system and other highly ranked state flagships - pricing themselves beyond the reach of their middle class in state students. </p>
<p>It would help if NY had more beach and sunshine, but it’s really about vision and marketing. If people believe your school is better, you can attract the students and faculty that in turn truly make your school more attractive and image becomes substance…look at the track record of schools who’ve risen dramatically in rankings. They’ve all learned how to “play the game”, which hasn’t necessarily benefitted the kids living nearby.</p>
<p>CPT, Binghamton has 15% OOS. Unless I am sadly mistaken, they have appreciably lowere SATs than the Instate kids. It is unacceptable for the state not to release that data. If they are so proud of what they are doing, release the data. I submit that increasing average SATs of freshman would also raise profile. </p>
<p>The UCs provide a great education to their own kids, and charge OOS fairly. The SUNYs manage to treat instate poorly on two counts, one more favorable admission to OOS and two, below market tuition for OOS. Its time for a change.</p>
<p>Hard to watch the whining about the CA state schools. At least 45 other states would love to have them.</p>
<p>kay - Also, the SUNYs seem to offer some pretty good rates for in-state, no? At least they’re a good deal financially, even if they’re not on the top tier.</p>
<p>Is it true that the SUNYs have lower admission requirements for OOS students? That seems completely backwards. </p>
<p>I’m not in NY, but I gotta admit that the very attractive price for the SUNYs caught my eye from out of state. Unfortunately, like cptofthehouse, I’m a bit worried about the quality - but don’t know enough to say whether my worries are justified. I’d prefer tougher standards with a stronger education, even at a higher price (but only slightly higher - hah). NY probably could raise their quality and beef up their OOS rates; I wonder why they’re not pursuing that.</p>
<p>kayf - I think the jury is out on whether the UC’s will remain an affordable option for their own kids. The OP is perhaps only the first wave of CA residents surprised by the upward spiral of in state costs, this only looks to get worse…</p>
<p>On top of cost I find it interesting that the OP’s son got into Berkeley but not UCSD - so he’s in where admission is generally more elusive, but not at the one UC to which he could commute. Since his stats are so high it does make you wonder if there is some sort of quota on the locals to limit commuters.</p>
<p>I understand the desire to have low in state and high out of state prices when you’re an in state student and want to go to the school - but this invites and encourages the schools to raise the percentage of out of state students they accept to gain more money. Bringing in money is nice, but it also means that more in state kids will be denied admission.</p>