Williams.
Sounds like a Reedie to me. (1) through (4) = match. Getting in is a different issue, but he’s in range.
correction: @wisteria100. (#19)
@"ScaredNJDad :
I don’t think the numbers support your assertion that “Reed doesn’t get that many applications.” 3000+ not enough? For a very small school? Lowest of the four, to be sure, but compared to acceptance rate, on a par with Grinnell.
Williams and Haverford are much more preppy than the other two. “Quirky” and “drug accepting” kids are more likely to be found at Grinnell and Reed. He seems like the perfect candidate for Reed from what I’ve heard.
He has very solid stats. Given that he doesn’t have a solid favorite (and his personal qualities seem to straddle multiple schools), I don’t think he should ED. Everything except the swim team says “Reed” to me. That says Williams – but it is a fairly preppy place, and maybe more mainstream than he really wants. (Has he checked out Carleton? I could see him there from your description.)
One of the things I like about Reed is that it is generally accessible to students who are a good match for the school and who have crafted a sincere application. If it became hyper-competitive like some other colleges, I actually think it would be a lesser institution.
Hahaha. Perhaps Haverford has changed drastically in the past few years, but I wouldn’t necessarily call it preppy–at least not to the extent of Williams. I go to Bryn Mawr, put spend a lot of time at Haverford because one of my best friends here is a 'Ford. As a generalization, Haverford students like to get drunk (sorry, but true) and while there’s not a huge drug culture there, no one thinks twice about it and it does exist. While you have the prep school kids, there’s definitely a large counter-culture there, and neither group really stands out as the dominating culture on campus.
All in all, though, Reed does sound like a better fit, but I wouldn’t put Haverford out of the equation, because what people say on CC about Haverford isn’t exactly true (at least anymore).
@literallyleslie As a Haverford student myself, I have to disagree that Haverford students like to get drunk. A majority do maybe, but a solid 30 percent at least don’t drink here. @cmom101 101 Haverford is definitely quirky, as is Reed although Reed also has a very strong counterculture vibe. Williams is less quirky and more preppy. What did your son think of the Honor Code when he visited Haverford? His feelings toward that are a strong indicator of if he might be happy at Haverford.
Have you run the net price calculator on each school’s web site to check how financially realistic each school is?
I should’ve clarified–when I was the term generalization, I mean it’s likely true ~75% of the time, which is pretty close to what you said. And while I definitely know people who don’t drink–I don’t either, and no one at haverford has ever said anything about it–Id say the culture still exists there, having experienced many apartment parties, private wine events, and beer pong/vodka in the hallways.
Your son can’t go wrong with any of those schools, although I think Williams sounds the least like him. My son is a first-year at Grinnell, so I can give you some (admittedly biased) observations about the place. Everything said about the location is true–it is fairly isolated and hard to get to for those of us on a coast. However, the resources at the school are amazing and it is a very campus-centric environment. Kids do go on weekends to Des Moines and the hipper Iowa City, but mainly there is so much going on on campus that they don’t feel much need to. My son is not a kid who needs or even does well with a lot of outside stimulation, so the non-city inwardly focused environment suits him. The students he has met are quirky, intellectual, interesting and friendly. There is a drug and alcohol scene (more than my son expected)–but also plenty to do for kids who don’t want to participate in that. The campus is beautiful and the facilities are incredible.
BTW, my son got in ED without legacy or sports. Grinnell has a very high ED acceptance rate, in part because they care a lot (as many other LACS do) about demonstrated interest. I think adding geographical diversity helped as well.
We know Haverford and Grinnell well, and those seem like the more obvious choices for someone who wants to seriously engage on an intellectual level. The Honor Code at H’ford plus the tradition of self-gov at Grinnell create cultures where students are taken seriously in their academic and social choices. Haverford (as a BMC alum) reflected a wide variety of kids – while many are east-coast centric and aspire to be successful after college, there was not the culture of “Wall Street or bust” found on some other campuses. Recreational drug use part of the scene at both H’ford and Grinnell.
My limited knowledge of Reed comes from a colleague whose kid transferred out – thought it was their dream school, with intellectually rich environment, but found it quite competitive among the students and wanted a more collaborative environment.
Williams seems like the real outlier here in terms of campus culture. While there are marvelous academic opportunities, it sounds like this is a kid who does not want to feel like he is swimming against the tides in college, and the preppy, jock, east coast vibe (I’m from there, this is not a midwest bias thing), would not be welcoming over time.
I have a son at Grinnell, now a junior, who sounds a lot like your son (and probably like the son of @citykid.) My son is a sub-free guy but not all his friends are as abstemious. He is able to pursue his intellectual interests because there are not a lot of academic requirements to meet. Professors are very accessible and most classes are small. The school is definitely rural and trips to those larger cities are infrequent so most activity is on campus. This is good for him now as he can concentrate on school and participate in other activities when he wants to.
If your son wants to swim he can do this without being a recruited athlete as the team welcomes swimmers.
In my son’s case he did not apply early as he did not have a clear first choice and wanted to apply more widely and see the application process through. In the end, he had plenty of acceptances and a decision to make. From Grinnell, he did receive an earlier acceptance and was invited to come and visit, with the offer a plane ticket, so this definitely made him feel wanted.
I think the other schools on your sons’ list are also good options. It might make sense to apply to all of them and make a decision once all the possibilities are on the table. There is little risk as long as he has a safety school on his list to ensure that he is in fact going to college next year.
This kid sounds like a Grinnellian to me. S saw many of the same schools as your son and was ED at Grinnell. It had the smallest average class sizes of any of the 10 top LACs we visited, included intro science classes (his love). And because it is 45 min from Des Moines and Iowa City, most of the faculty live in town and are part of the school community. He ran with one of his profs, babysat for another, did some community service with a third, etc…It’s a tight community. S wasn’t interested at all in Williams - much too preppy. Haverford was somewhat less preppy but still not a fit, although I’m sure he’d have been fine there. Grinnellians aren’t preppy and they seemed slightly less ‘edgy’ and “angular” than Reedies. He also fell in love with the understated, low key midwestern vibe - totally new to him. Grinnell also has amazing facilities due to their exceptionally large endowment: The sports facilities including an extraordinary aquatic center are palatial.(S swam and played water polo.) Lots of money for merit aid, student activities, guest speakers, etc… You can see that I’m a big fan - it was a transformative experience for him.
Reed and Grinnell seem like good fits for him. I don’t know anything about Haverford so I won’t render an opinion. I agree that Williams seems like a bit of an outlier. Surprised that Oberlin didn’t make the cut, especially given that he is into music.
Question about the sports - do D3 schools as sporty as Williams allow anyone to join their team, or do they have tryouts?
Even though swimming isn’t a big factor, if he can’t swim at Williams then they might as well not have a swim team.
Most D3 schools have a walk-on or two in most sports. Even in D1, it is not uncommon to find walk-ons
@SonOfAbraham It is very possible but it would be the rare walk on that would travel with the team. The recruiting process in NESCAC is a very formal process linked with ED and basically applying in the summer, even if they just review transcripts and test scores. The recruited athletes know well in advance if they will get accepted or not.
I think interested students should participate if they like. It is very good socially at small schools.
Reed actually gets 5000+ apps, so…
Anyway, east coast elitism vs midwest unpretentiousness vs west coast ease?