My son has narrowed down his top schools to Haverford, Reed, Grinnell, and Williams. He has fallen in love with all of them to various extents and thinks he could really fit in at any of them, but was hoping to get some opinions on where he might do best.
There are a few things you should know about him:
He is very smart. He doesn’t just have the ability to read and regurgitate facts, but he enjoys being analytical and thoughtful; similarly enjoys being around people who are thoughtful, open minded, and enjoy intelligent discussion (beyond small talk). He had a bit of a hard time in high school because people didn’t tend to talk about serious subjects and ideas–he was friendly and talked all the time, but was frustrated that few people wanted to discuss social justice issues or academia as much as him.
It seems that he would fit in better at a place with more quirky and unique student body. He always likes hearing new viewpoints and spending time with diverse people.
To my chagrin, a fairly active drug culture would probably agree with him. Fairly soft drugs have been part of his teenage experience thus far and it seems he likes the kind of people who use them for sort of spiritualistic purposes. He constantly condemns thoughtless use of drugs like meth and cocaine and I think he’d like to avoid them, but seems to appreciate assorted psychedelics and marijuana.
He wants a very diverse education. His interests range from math to music to biology to psychology and he hopes to be able to experiment with classes (and intelligent, helpful professors) in all these areas as much as he can. Something to tag on to this is he can become rather obsessed with a topic and neglect his schoolwork on occasion to delve very deeply into research and trying to understand a concept he enjoys which I think can be great, but can’t help but worry about his grades suffering as he takes more difficult classes.
Also, prestige isn’t a huge issue for him as long as he knows he’s getting a great education and good professors who will prepare him for whatever comes next. Thanks for the help!
And I think he has a shot at getting into these schools (SATs: 2310, GPA: 96.4 from a good high school with a full honors/AP courses load all through high school)
Oh believe me, he knows he could be rejected! This is really trying to decide where to apply early decision and which others to apply to regular if he isn’t accepted. He has visited these schools and done overnights at Reed, Haverford, and Williams. Other colleges he’s looking at are Swarthmore, Oberlin, and Macalester. These schools just didn’t resonate with him as strongly as the four in the title.
Is there something fundamentally different about Reed and Williams/Haverford? I didn’t go with him on his visits, but it seemed to me like Reed and Haverford were based on a lot of the same ideas. Williams did seem like a bit of an outlier to me but he loved the tutorials there and the chance to have that much intimate interaction with a professor.
I don’t believe that ED offers any advantage. Many schools will tell you the same thing.
Williams is very jocky like all the NESCAC schools, so ED is for recruits, then legacy students. The higher acceptance rate just reflects the candidates are preselected.
Reed doesn’t get that many applications so in that case there is no reason to apply ED.
I could see why all these schools appeal to him. Many were in the running for my kids. I am most familiar with Haverford and it fits what your son is looking for.
How about factors like location? Haverford has a great bucolic campus but easy access to all Philly has to offer - museums, music scene, great restaurants. Williams and Grinnell are much more isolated. Williams would appeal to someone looking to pursue outdoors activities. Grinnell’s location is probably its biggest drawback.
With this point of yours, has he looked at Colorado College where students take one course at a time through a block system?
“4) He wants a very diverse education. His interests range from math to music to biology to psychology and he hopes to be able to experiment with classes (and intelligent, helpful professors) in all these areas as much as he can. Something to tag on to this is he can become rather obsessed with a topic and neglect his schoolwork on occasion to delve very deeply into research and trying to understand a concept he enjoys which I think can be great, but can’t help but worry about his grades suffering as he takes more difficult classes.”
That’s OK, he still wants to get a jump on the admission process and, if it does get him an advantage, he could use it as he’s applying to reasonably competitive schools.
That’s good to know about Williams because he is considering swimming in college (if he winds up at a school with athletics–he specifically told me he wasn’t going to decide where he goes based on a good swim team).
He loved the Haverford location as he likes the impression of isolation it gives when on campus, but is also a fanatic about music and having Philly nearby would attract some big acts and provide plenty of bars to see local musicians and even play himself. So that is definitely going to influence his decision. But, he was very concerned about where he would fit in the best; he has spent his whole life around people that I get the sense he thinks of as closed-minded and shallow (my words not his) and was hoping that could change in college. I don’t know if he looked at Colorado College–I left the whole process up to him for the most part, so I don’t know exactly where he ruled out and why. I’ll mention it to him and see what he says, but at this point I don’t know how he’ll fell about lengthening his list rather than condensing it!
Williams is fairly preppy. Would your son like that? That’s not the impression I get from your description.
I have to disagree with @scarednjbdad about ED. Yes, a good portion of ED is made up of athletes and legacies,but at most schools it does give other applicants a boost. I have seen scareddad say the data from his school doesn’t show that, so his particular school may not realize a bump from ED, but in general (and there is research to support this) it does help qualified applicants. So it could be a good strategy for your son
@wisteria100 Please quantify the boost? All you folks believe in your heart it does but have no proof whatsoever. Just your opinion. Do you understand who benefits from ED?. Hint its not the student. Schools even tell you that.
No he probably wouldn’t be crazy about a preppy school, you’re right about that! He is definitely going to ED somewhere no matter what, but he wants to make that decision carefully since he can’t back out of it.
And to clarify on athletics, swimming is not really a factor in deciding where he will attend–once he decides what school he will go to, if they offer swimming he will decide whether or not to swim.
I would echo the preppy/jocky vibe at Williams. Granted, there are definitely other types of students as well, but it is much more preppy/jocky than the other schools at the top of your son’s list. The tutorials would be right up his alley, however, but not sure if that reason should drive his decision. He’s bound to get close interaction w/ profs at other schools, too.
ScaredNJDad-- I don’t know exactly what he found appealing or disappointing about schools. He just told me these were the schools he liked best and wanted to know where it seemed like he would fit best. I guess the pluses outweighed the preppiness for him.
@ScaredNJDad Regarding the ED boost, I believe I posted a link on your thread about your d’s search. It references a study by Harvard professors who got access to admissions data from selective colleges and studied the ED factor. After taking out athletes, minorities and legacies, they found that ED was the equivalent of 100 extra SAT pts (out of 1400) or a boost of 17-29%.
Now I understand if naviance from your school shows little benefit from ED, but naviance from my daughter’s school clearly shows a bump at the LACs
I’m most familiar with Grinnell and Haverford, and it does sound like he would fit in at either one. Haverford doesn’t have a swim team (I know he said it doesn’t matter, but I thought I’d let you know in case he changes his mind). It’s also filled with very open-minded students who are pretty intellectual. It has a quiet feel, but it’s so close to Philadelphia that kids can easily find things to do off campus. From what I can tell, Grinnell has students who are much more politically active (maybe it’s because several of the candidates are spending lots of time in Iowa?)… not sure if this is a plus or a minus for your son. And the campus is also full of open-minded kids, although it is much more isolated than Haverford. I can’t really speak about Reed & Williams, although I’m surprised he liked them both. Most kids I know wouldn’t consider both of them.
I agree with the previous posters who note that most of the ED bump goes to athletes and legacies… and at these tiny schools they make up enough of the ED group that it “looks” like there is a huge bump for applicants. I will also let you know that my D applied ED last year because she knew where she wanted to go and she wanted the application process finished in December. She wasn’t an athlete/legacy/etc. but she was happy to be “done” in mid-December.
“I agree with the previous posters who note that most of the ED bump goes to athletes and legacies” (#18)
Except for @wisteria (#17) who actually offered a scholarly source that came to a different conclusion. It could be reasonable to consider whether the Kennedy study is dated when weighing its relevance, but in terms of the quality of its research, it was excellent.