Haverford vs. Amherst

Colleges and Universities A-Z Haverford College
1

<p>[I also posted this in the Amherst forum]
Hello,
I am a long-time reader of college confidential but a first-time poster. I am posting because I have been accepted to both Haverford and Amherst and was wondering if anyone had any advice or things to consider while making my decision. I live much closer to Haverford (only about 45 minutes away) and I plan on majoring in Political Science (with probable plans for grad school). I will be sleeping over both of the schools in the next few weeks to help with my final decision but I would appreciate it if anyone could contribute what they think in order to help me.</p>

<p>Subjective points about each school:</p>

<p>Haverford
Advantages:
Very homely, very friendly, very caring environment
The opportunity to take classes at Bryn Mawr and UPenn. [Another question: has anyone else had experience with doing this? Is it grossly inconvenient to take classes at Penn?]
Philadelphia [easy access by train to a city I know very well. Next year, I will have a twin brother at Penn and a girlfriend at Temple—two very large things to consider that I know shouldn’t make as much as a difference as they probably will]
The obvious advantages: great school, small classes, smart people, personal attention from administrators
Possible Disadvantages:
Too small?
Science and foreign language requirements?
Over-emphasised Honor Code? [Is it overly intrusive (as I fear) or just very convenient and a nice way for the administration to express their trust?]</p>

<p>Amherst
Advantages:
Once again, the obvious ones listed above
The fantastic Law, Jurisprudence and Social Thought program to supplement my Political Science major
A more “avant-garde” poly sci program – more emphasis on motivations in US politics, corporate influence, etc
Grad School concerns (more name recognition) [question: Does anyone think that attending Haverford would be less impressive to Poly Sci Ph.D. programs?]
Slightly larger
Disadvantages:
4 – 5 hours away
Possible concerns about pretense, etc (I think this is unfounded and I am sure I will find out when I sleep over) [any comments?]
Amherst is (possibly) inferior to Philadelphia / Bryn Mawr area.</p>

<p>Thank you for anything you could write about the schools, their environments and the people there, their “cultures,” Political Science, grad school, the locations, or anything else. I would appreciate any advice very much.</p>

2

<p>First of all, I don't think you can go wrong with either decision. As a Haverford alum, I can assure you that the school is well-regarded in both the academic and professional communities. The honor code is not intrusive, but a real benefit. One is treated as a responsible adult and there is a true respect fostered between individuals. Also, remember that you can also take courses at Swarthmore.</p>

3

<p>This is copied from a 2005 CC thread. You can find the original by searching "PhD poli sci". Amherst is a little better known than Haverford in general. However, both schools are fantastic with more than enough opportunities for talented students to stay busy. The top 10 schools offer more resources than most students will be able to utilize in 4 years, so it really depends on how happy you are at the place, because... happy students--->engaged/involved students-->sucessful graduates. congrats on 2 great choices. Haverford may have a "homey" environment and feel, but I've never heard of it described as "homely" (plain, boring, uninteresting...). :)</p>

<p>PhD production - Poli Sci & Public Administration </p>

<hr>

<p>Here are the top-50 undergrad schools in per capita PhD and Doctoral production from 1994-2003. Rank, followed by name, followed by number of PhDs per 1000 undergrads. This covers all PhDs and doctoral degrees included in the NSF data base. </p>

<p>Per Capita Undergrad Production of PhDs and Doctoral Degrees </p>

<p>Academic field: Political Science & Public Administration </p>

<p>PhDs and Doctoral Degrees: 1994 to 2003 from NSF database </p>

<p>Enrollment from 2004 USNews </p>

<p>Formula: PhDs divided by undergrad enrollment times 1000 </p>

<p>1 Swarthmore College 23
2 Harvard University 20
3 Haverford College 19
4 Princeton University 18
5 Pomona College 17
6 Oberlin College 17
7 Williams College 17
8 Wesleyan University 16
9 University of Chicago 13
10 Amherst College 13
11 Reed College 13
12 Bryn Mawr College 13
13 Yale University 12
14 Smith College 12
15 Stanford University 12
16 Georgetown University 11
17 Carleton College 11
18 Wellesley College 10
19 Whitman College 10
20 University of the South 10
21 College of Wooster 10
22 Middlebury College 10
23 Franklin and Marshall College 10
24 Claremont McKenna College 10
25 Brown University 10
26 Dartmouth College 9
27 Kenyon College 9
28 Colby College 8
29 Occidental College 8
30 Bowdoin College 8
31 Brandeis University 8
32 Colorado College 8
33 Earlham College 8
34 Colgate University 8
35 United States Air Force Academy 7
36 Duke University 7
37 Lawrence University 7
38 Knox College 7
39 Harvey Mudd College 7
40 Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL) 7
41 Barnard College 7
42 Vassar College 7
43 Davidson College 6
44 United States Military Academy 6
45 Northwestern Univ 6
46 Macalester College 6
47 Columbia University in the City of New York 6
48 Drew University 6
49 University of California-Berkeley 6
50 Grinnell College 6
51 Cornell University, All Campuses 6
52 California Institute of Technology 6</p>

<p>Note 1: Some have complained that these lists don't provide useful data. Proposed Solution: ignore the lists. </p>

<p>Note 2: Some have complained that these lists don't include Law, MBA, MD, or Masters degrees. Proposed Solution: find the data and make your own list.</p>

4

<p>I would suggest that Amherst students tend to be more mainstream culturally, while Haverford students tend to be funkier and more alternative. </p>

<p>Amherst has a football team. Haverford has a cricket team.</p>

5

<p>Please note that the numbers on that list are multiplied by 1000... so you are really comparing a difference between 0.019 and 0.013, so the comparison is based on an artificially constructed scale measuring exquisitely tiny differences between schools. HC is still wonderful though.</p>

6

<p>Anyone know where the Dean of Admissions at Amherst sent her child for college? You guessed it, he's a freshman at Haverford right now.</p>

7

<p>Thank you very much for all that you have said. I will consider it all. The thing about Amherst's dean is pretty funny, too.</p>

8

<p>i doubt she "sent" her child anywhere - he probably chose himself. plus, i wouldnt want to go to school where my mom worked. nonetheless, i still think haverford's cooler anyway. i like the students more - they have a good sense of humor.</p>

9

<p>I ended up choosing Haverford in the end. I just thought I would post that. It should be a really great experience.</p>

10

<p>Congrats on your choice!
Regarding your concerns about HC, let me try to address them… but given that you chose HC, these may now seem too obvious for you… sorry if that’s the case.</p>

<p>1) liberal arts (sci/language requirements): we live in an interdisciplinary age and you will be impressed how far a wide breadth of knowledge will take you… especially if you plan on Poli Sci. For example, one of the best ways to appreciate how the US political system works is by comparing it to another country… a study abroad semester or summer project. Going to China, or Russia, or any # of countries will allow you to see what works and what needs to be improved with our government… and knowing a foreign language will be crucial for you to get as genuine of a foreign experience as possible. Also, the US is a part of the international community and if you want to be relevant in government, knowing a language like Spanish, Mandarin, ect… will be really important. Given advances in computer technology and science (genomics, environmental issues, stem cells…) filling the science requirements will help you be more informed if a political career is what you’re after. </p>

<p>2) the honor code: it’s what you make out of it. You can be as involved or passive as you want with it. I’d encourage you to engage it as much as you can because it will challenge you to think about political, social, and inter-group dynamics as an important foundation for your studies in Poli Sci. </p>

<p>I think HC will be a wonderful place for you, especially because your brother will be at Penn. Seeing and experiencing college with your sibling, in a new environment and away from your parents, is really a great experience. These will be transformational years for you both and experiencing them “together” will provide many memories and bonding experiences for to reminisce when you’re old and grey. As I said before, when I was at HC, my older sister and bro were at BMC and Swat, and the experiences and friends that we shared really brought us closer together and I can’t imagine how different we’d be if we went to more separate schools.</p>

11

<p>Aw. Thanks. That was such a nice response. I'm looking forward to heading there.</p>

12

<p>My son is trying to choose between these 2 schools. We live in Westchester county,NY. He will be playing soccer at either school. He’s not sure about a major, but is lesning towards physics possibly leading to engineering. Any thought?</p>

13

<p>If he is interested in Physics leading to a possible Engineering career, instead of Haverford, he might consider Swarthmore instead. These schools have many similarities, except that Swarthmore (like Bucknell and Trinity) actually has an Engineering major. Swarthmore is actually very science-oriented. Good luck in his choice!</p>

14

<p>We visited Haverford yesterday and my daughter loved it…but she also loved Swarthmore. I don’t know if we will get to see Amherst–can’t see every school. I think for her, location of Haverford would be a plus (she really likes Philadelphia). At Haverford, you will also be able to take courses very easily at Bryn Mawr, which I see as an advantage. As for the dean of Amherst sending her kid to Haverford…I can only tell you that I am a high school teacher and my daughter said that if I came to teach at her school while she was there, she would never talk to me again. LOL.</p>