So I got rejected from my ED school and want to decide which of these I should apply to for ED 2. I want to major in engineering and they both offer great paths.
Haverford- 4/1 with Penn, +50000$ cost
Swarthmore- No specialized engineering major, only bachelor’s degree,+0$ cost
Which would be more likely to take me ED 2? Are ED 2 admit rates close to RD at these schools , and if so should I just drop ED 2 altogether?
My stats:33 ACT, 750 Physics, 800 math level 2, 8.75 GPA(8.0+=A)
Good extracurrics, great recs, good to great essays
It’s hard to say which would be more likely to accept you in an ED2 round. They are both highly selective (probably not too much less so than the school that rejected you). The CDS does not distinguish ED2 from ED1 and RD admission numbers (only the overall and ED number of applications and offers). Even if you find the numbers online from a reliable source, direct comparisons won’t necessarily be meaningful, since the applicant pools probably have different characteristics (average stats, etc.) But for whatever it’s worth, Haverford’s 2016-17 overall “early” admission rates were higher than Swarthmore’s (about 51% v. 34%, respectively).
If your goal is to become a practicing civil/mechanical/chem/electric engineer, there may be better choices than either of these (including state universities with much lower sticker prices). But for that goal, I would think the year at Penn would make Haverford the better choice (as long as the additional time and cost doesn’t deter you). If your goal is to go into something else (such as finance or business consulting) then I would think it makes sense to take the faster, less expensive Swarthmore path. Another consideration might be whether the Haverford 4/1 plan requires a lot of travel between campuses. If so, you may want to consider what that would entail (along with the significance of the $50K cost difference to your family).
Swarthmore has a great engineering school. Really depends what you want to do with the degree as it sounds like you are worried that it’s not specialized enough, which may be a concern if you were going to work for Lockheed Martin - but definitely not if you go to work for a top consulting firm, a tech firm, or an investment banking firm.
Swarthmore. Unless the Haverford/Penn program is a direct admit now as a freshman applicant, you are going to have to jump through a bunch of extra hoops somewhere along the line just to get permission for that 5th year. Also, it isn’t just the extra cost of that year, you will also lose a year of salary, professional experience, and job seniority. Your real cost for that year will be more like 150k.
If you want a specialization after finishing at Swarthmore, chances are you will be able to get your employer to help pay for your MS Eng.
Why do you not have some regular state schools on your list for engineering?
We know a kid at a regional UT Branch school who has an internship with Lockheed Martin as a freshman and a job waiting for him when he graduates. Your $50,000 degree from Penn would get you…doing the same job right alongside with him and his virtually free degree at a regional university that is strong in engineering.
@tk21769@carachel2 eh, I forgot the most important detail: I’m an international asking for financial aid. So no state schools, they cost a loooot for me. The Penn 50k- my parents could pay 30k, maybe 35k, the rest as a loan.
@carachel2@tk21769@Chembiodad I want to go into energy research and development through the EE path(uncommon, I know). I also want to study astrophysics/geophysics as a supplement. The MS could allow me to spend a few years in industry(paying off my loans) before starting my own thing. The BS may make me do a PhD or MS anyway, but I guess a PhD won’t cost so much … but getting into a PhD may take significant time.
@happymomof1 I’m not interested in being employed beyond 30. I want to do my own thing in energy tech, so I thought finishing up my studies(degrees, in case my thing doesn’t work out) by 25 seemed a good option. A PhD would be an option after Swarthmore, but it may require jumping through even more hoops…
Edit:I don’t want to seem like I want to deliberately oppose your ideas or any one of these schools. I just want to get a reality check on my current thoughts and ideas because I’m from outside the States and don’t want to make a wrong decision under illusions.
@GalladeAggron well good luck with that plan! Part of the skeptical old working schmuck part of me wants to poke fun at your plan as being totally ridiculous BUT the other part of me is well aware there are many youngsters breaking the millions mark by 30!! So I know there are some brilliant kids out there who will indeed hit that goal.
International student makes a whole different situation. Have you applied to any of the places with good guaranteed merit aid. Check the thread on Automatic Scholarships in the Financial Aid forum. Yes, some of those are open to international students - granted not Haverford/Penn/Swarthmore, but still solid engineering programs.
What options do you have in your own country? A. US engineering degree will not get you the right to work here one second beyond the end of your OPT, and even that is dependent on you finding an employer for the OPT, and on the US govt. not eliminating OPT between now and when you would graduate. Be sure you have an employer back home, or a project there to return to, when you finish your time here.
@carachel2 I don’t intend to become rich. I just want to research and develop alternative (sources of) energy through a combination of engineering/astrophysics/geophysics. I have zero intention of making more money than I need to get by. Only problem is that this kind of thinking isn’t quite - let’s say, “acceptable” or “respectable”- among my fellow countrymen. Sigh.
@happymomof1 I don’t intend on working in the US . To pay off my loans , I could go to the Canada/UK/Europe/India(my country- opportunities for a guy with a US university engineering degree are through the roof, though exchange rates mean it could get very difficult to pay back 15k) to get my industry experience and a specialized Penn degree certainly would do better in getting me a job. Although a Swarthmore degree with no money to pay back could serve me excellently if I decide to go for a PhD in the USA/UK/Europe.
I will check out the scholarships but it really doesn’t matter THAT much to me if I get into a US college or not . India has some pretty good engineering institutes, and I am certain of admission into one of them- but the opportunities for undergraduate research are close to zero, and so I wanted to expand into the US .
As Haverford is smaller than most of the top LACs, it looks for a very specific kind of student, who embraces the school’s Quaker tradition and the central role of the Honor Code which affects all aspects of community life. Unless a student can really articulate how that resonates with them, I cannot see it as a good ED2 option. Throw in the extra financial burden of the engineering program with U Penn, and it is not a good fit.
I don’t know how international financial aid might be, but other schools with engineering programs which are slightly less difficult for admission might include Union in New York, as well as some schools like Lehigh, Bucknell and Rochester.
Many state schools may very well have higher net prices than selective private colleges like Haverford & Swarthmore … if you’re only looking at sticker prices minus need-based aid. However, some state schools do make large merit scholarships available to international students. Example: https://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out-of-state.php
Unfortunately, Alabama’s deadlines already have passed*, but there may be others worth considering (depending, among other factors, on how much n-b aid you’d be expecting from Haverford/Swat). http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/
If Alabama has any appeal, then even though the application deadline was December 15, you might want to ask them to please consider a late application. I like LACs a lot; Haverford and Swarthmore are among my favorites. However, in my opinion, a research university with top ~100 engineering programs may support your career goals better, especially if funds are tight. For a terminal masters degree program you may not get much financial aid. You better clarify whether Haverford/Swat financial aid is likely to cover a 5th year at Penn.
@tk21769 I checked out said schools some time ago… Alabama’s merit based doesn’t cover my costs. The only school with a decent program and good aid which I liked was UGeorgia and their deadline passed sometime ago. @Midwestmomofboys I think I get you. I’ll look into it.
I don’t want to apply to Lehigh because I can guarantee admission to a top tech school in my home country, which outranks Lehigh. Lehigh’s engineering research seemed low to me and since I was applying in the US just for the better research opportunities, Lehigh didn’t make sense. Union I plain disliked. Don’t know why. Bucknell-similar to Lehigh. Rochester-Ill check it out!
@GalladeAggron I would argue that Lehigh would be a better engineering choice than either Swarthmore or Haverford. Both of the latter are great LAC’s, but have very little to offer regarding engineering. Have you checked out Carnegie Mellon, RPI or Case Western as an international student? Far better for engineering options than either of these two.