It doesn’t surprise me at all where it’s happening.
I think a lot of college students look for a group of to identify with, to hang out with, to talk to, to share with etc. For some it’s Greek life, for some it’s campus religious groups, for others it’s a snowboarding club, or a business fraternity or a food club - and all of those groups likely have rituals or rules or initiations, etc. I don’t understand the family tree stuff either, honestly, and I was in a sorority. I had a big sister whose responsibility was to guide me through the recruitment process. I guess “not getting it” is probably a good indication that it wasn’t the right group for you (no snark intended!)
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I am never surprised no matter where it is, sadly. I just expect hazing happens everywhere. College students at any school have the capability of behaving badly, being seduced by the crowd, wanting to fit in, making bad choices, etc
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College bands probably haze new members.
I remember being amazed by the pledge process of black fraternities on campus. I can’t imagine that is allowed any longer, but I could be wrong.
I wonder does it take a certain “type” who is so eager to “belong” that they are willing to subjugate themselves, setting aside their own self-respect? Seems the vast majority of people don’t join (or have confidence in their own worth to walk away), so life is possible without “belonging”.
I wonder if this whole system just fosters the future abusers, who eventually will see themselves has having “earned” the right to take revenge on the next incoming cycle, thereby regaining their lost self-respect.
I sure don’t hope so!? My daughter was part of several clubs/organizations in college, and she certainly wouldn’t have stood for any sort of “initiation” “rituals” – way too principled.
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Yes…and some of the hazing at schools with excellent marching bands have had some very serious hazing incidents.
Sadly this type of behavior is still rampant in colleges and high schools
It is a way to break a big group into smaller groups. When a new member joins a sorority, a “Big Sister” is matched and the Big shows the Little the ropes, some of the traditions. It is a nice to have someone greet the new member when she walks into the house for meals, meetings and activities. My Big is still one of my best friends. Sometimes the match is because the two know each other or have the same major or interests, sometimes they are random. Sometimes the matches don’t result in lifelong friendships, just like some random dorm assignments result in best friends while others are friends for just a year (or hate each other).
Another of my best friends from the sorority was not in my ‘family’ at all. Not a big deal but it took longer for me to get to know her.
I’m one who thinks it is fine to assign chores to swim team members. Someone has to do the jobs and if they aren’t assigned, they often fall to the same team members. My daughter was one who always setting up goals, cleaning up the field, picking up towels in the weight lifting room or locker rooms because she was taught to do that in her youth leagues. You can’t believe how many kids think it is fine to throw trash on the ground, who think someone else will pick up after them, who never help with set up or tear down. They think someone else will do the work and they just dump their trash and leave.
I guess the coach needs to assign those chores and mix up the assignments so they don’t all go to freshmen.
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That’s pretty offensive to all the people who are in or who have gone through that system. There are narcissists and abusers in all walks of life - certainly they can’t all be traced back to participation in Greek life. No one signs up for something because they want to be hazed. Unfortunately, it can happen in group situations - and as we’ve seen on this thread, it’s far from being associated only with Greek life.
Most people, unless they are extremely introverted or the Unabomber, want to belong to something where they can meet and interact with other people who have common interests. It’s literally why colleges have 100’s of campus groups and clubs. If Greek life doesn’t make sense, swipe left.
I didn’t necessarily mean it in a negative, “ritualistic” way but every group has leadership and guidelines, rules or social mores that are accepted and followed before someone can become a member. Even FB groups and this site have rules & guidelines. If you don’t agree, you’re free to walk away and try something else that more closely aligns with your goals or beliefs.
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If I’m not mistaken, Navy SEALs get hazed. You should track one down and explain your theory of subjugation to them. 
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The topic of this thread IS hazing – and post was about those submitting themselves to hazing, rather than drawing a line. Commenting about/calling out hazing is not offensive, hazing is.
Posted, “administrative” membership entry requirements, and policies, that are subject to public and personal scrutiny, before even considering membership, also don’t fit the subject.
Well - that’s the crux of it all, isn’t it.
I suspect the parents of the many cases resulting in death, disability or serious injury, wished their student had exhibited the confidence to not cross that line.
My concern are those who don’t - and why? (No, I’m not blaming them for becoming a victim - but the question is worth examining.)
If people thought “No” was truly an option, then the bullies would be powerless.
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Neither right, nor remotely necessary for the optimal result.
Depending if it happens and when, in the worst case it might even “wash out” those who you ideally would want on a team.
Someone’s admirable and undisputed physical and mental abilities, performance and resilience does not rule out certain personality traits? Even superman is not above questions & scrutiny - else we risk a supervillain!
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I defer to the BUD/S instructors that have lived the real life of a SEAL to determine what is remotely necessary. They are training the tip of the spear.
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Dito !
Hazing by peers ≠ Instruction.
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I read Lone Survivor and the first part of the book is about the Seal training and how lots of people would drop/wash out due to the extreme physical activities they would have to persist with. Going through a selection process like that by instructors is very different than hazing. The former is trying to get those who are mentally and physically tough enough to handle the rigors of the position they’re trying out for. Contrast that to an individual who is assaulted because they refused to haze (in this instance, assault) a peer. That has absolutely no beneficial value to the group or the work that they’re supposed to be doing. Same thing for the band members who had to walk the bus, or the frat recruits who feel compelled to drink themselves to death, or, or, or…
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There has also been a huge change in what is considered hazing. My niece belongs to the same sorority as me, and I asked her about a song. She said “oh, we aren’t required to learn songs, that’s considered hazing.”
Okay.
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If you discount death as hazing. This is not the first time a SEAL candidate has died during BUD/S. Drownings happen, too. I agree that the point of BUD/S is to test endurance and resolve under extreme conditions for special military purposes, but there is an argument to be made that this program needs more oversight.
Should you ring the bell and drop out, a different form of hazing occurs.
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Here’s a follow-up article after the Navy concluded its investigation. Gifted link:
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Thank you for the link.
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I actually think that you are searching for answers where there aren’t really any. I doubt that it is usually a lack of self-confidence or a willingness to be bullied. I think it is because teenagers are often stupid and do risky, reckless activities. Their frontal lobes aren’t really knit together, and their hormones are raging. Plus, they look around them and everyone else is doing the same thing. I bet that they think (if they are even thinking at all) that hundreds of other kids have previously survived the initiation process without getting seriously hurt, and it never occurs to them that they could be the exception that proves the rule. Similarly, the upperclassmen valued their experience four years ago as new members of the frat/team/social group, and it never occurs to them that they might seriously hurt the new recruits under their care. Add alcohol to the mix and adults who turn a blind eye (and fathers/mothers who were part of the same fraternity or sorority a generation ago and didn’t warn their children away), I don’t think it is surprising that some kids get caught up in dangerous practices or that the whole thing often goes too far.
I’ve never belonged to a varsity team or a sorority, but I shudder to think of all the incredibly stupid and thoughtless choices I made at 17. It wasn’t lack of self-confidence. If anything I was a bit cocky. I thought that I was invincible and that I could handle any challenge that came my way. I may have even thought that surviving stupid challenges was a sign of strength --though really, I don’t think my thought process was that deep. I just wasn’t thinking.
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New details on the BC swim hazing incident. Hazing is a crime in Mass, so local police are also involved.