Heart vs. Head: U Chicago on Rubenstein vs. HLS @ sticker

Graduate School Law School
41

<p>I am not really sure why there is such a long discussion about it. Picking Harvard sticker over Georgetown full ride could make sense, depending on the individual’s risk tolerance. Picking Harvard sticker over Chicago/ Columbia/ NYU full ride is borderline insane.</p>

<p>For those who talk about how Romney’s and Obama’s of the world went to HLS, so what? How does that relate to anyone’s chance of future success down the road? After your first job post school, most employers won’t even care if you went to U Chicago Law vs Harvard Law. It’s your work experience, connections, reputation, ability, work ethic, and networking skills that would carry you.</p>

<p>Heck, the founding father of the most prestigious law firm in the world, Wachtell, is a NYU Law grad. The founding father of the most prestigious PE firm, KKR, is a U Chicago Law grad. Warren Buffett is a Columbia grad. You can find thousands of examples of extremely successful people hailing from almost all top schools. Ridiculous.</p>

42

<p>“who doesn’t want a clerkship, or an academic position, or work in the white house?”</p>

<p>Many law students do not. Even at Yale, the percentage of the class that pursues clerkships at all is well under 100%. Another chunk of the class at the top 6 (and beyond) is only willing to clerk if they get certain ultra-prestigious clerkships. I think they’re making a big mistake, but a lot of them do not even apply to district courts, or to judges outside of NYC, etc. They’d prefer to go straight to the firm rather than get a superb clerkship that isn’t <em>precisely</em> the one they want, and they understand that they are likely to end up without a clerkship at all as a result. There really are folks at top law schools who just want to practice law.</p>

43

<p>“DS does not want to specialize in a particular type of law, does not want to work in biglaw/corporate, but definitely does want to work in public interest after law school, and wants to consider the LIPP program at HLS. We have instructed him to do exhaustive research into this, but not fall in love with it.”</p>

<p>Going back to this paragraph in the original post, and in light of subsequent discussion, I can’t help but think that this is fundamentally a question of whether HLS is worth a guarantee of a quarter-million dollars in student loan debt for some opportunities that are marginally more likely to be available to HLS grads, that your son may or may not want.</p>

<p>If it’s all about attending Harvard for three years, it’s insane for your son to go - only the absurdly wealthy spend a quarter-million dollars on self-gratification. </p>

<p>The thing that I would talk to all young people about is how much it costs to live. The Harvard LIPP takes 40% of income over $52,000 per year, which is functionally the lion’s share of that post-tax income. (Federal tax rate of 25%, perhaps 5-7% state, 7%ish FICA = 40-45% marginal tax rate, plus another 40% LIPP, and you end up taking home about two dollars of every additional ten dollars that you earn.). Deductions on student loan interest payments gets phased out around $65k a year. </p>

<p>If I were you, speakeasy, I would walk through the scenario of living on a relatively high public interest salary ($70k a year or so) with student loan debt. Take off 1/3d for taxes. Take off about $10k for his portion of the payments. Take off money for rent, heat, electric, water, sewer, cable, internet, car insurance, car payments, car repairs, cell phone, suits, dry cleaning, food, furniture, incidentals, new tires for the car, entertainment, pet expenses, moving expenses, emergency fund savings, etc. The rest is savings for a down payment on a house, the next car, a nicer apartment, etc.</p>

44

<p>To OP: I realize that this won’t be terribly helpful-but WOW! Congratulations to DS. Now advice: in my dotage I’ve become a debt phobic person, so if the choice is between a really great law school for free vs. a really really great law school at sticker-go with the free ride. Only other suggestion, as others have pointed out, is to contact HLS, tell them DS really, really wants to go, but those UChicago folks are throwing money at him and he’s so confused…maybe if HLS comes up with some $$$, his confusion will cease…
Anyway, under current facts, would recommend UChicago-but, again, WOW!</p>

45

<p>To Ariesathena: Thank you your brutal honesty and the financial detail.
To crankyoldman: Past posts from others suggest that this does not work with HYS - why would it? Philosophically they are against giving “free” money just for asking. (I do get the “nothing ventured …” angle.) BTW, UPenn sent fin aid package yesterday. $0 grants, $37K EFC, $39K loans ($20K unsubsidized @ 6.8%, rest GradPlus @ 7.9%). Doubt HLS will do any better.</p>

46

<p>(Not that this has any relevance to the thread, but I do think that financial aid comparison/negotiation might well work as between Harvard and Yale.)</p>

47

<p>“financial aid comparison/negotiation might well work as between Harvard and Yale”</p>

<p>With need-based aid, I agree that it’s worth a try.</p>

48

<p>Since my last post, S is in at Stanford as well. Yale is still pending. No word on any fin aid packets so far.</p>

49

<p>Congrats to your son. Did he make the trip to HLS the past weekend?</p>

50

<p>Padad, thank you. Yes, he attended the ASW at HLS, had a very favorable impression. Came back after midnight last night, so has not given us detailed feedback yet.</p>

51

<p>Congrats! What a great position to be in.</p>

52

<p>After visiting HLS and Chicago, and after much input and deliberation, DS formally declined Chicago’s offer last night and is heading to HLS. His primary reason was a better match with his interests at HLS. Risky decision, but we are being supportive. FWIW.</p>

53

<p>Best wishes! My D will be visiting New Haven later this week and to make her decision after that.</p>

54

<p>School pride requires me to say: Well, as between YLS and all others that’s a no contest. :D</p>