<p>The D that visited colleges during junior year and made a realistic list of places where she would be happy and accepted was not the same student who ended up applying on the waning moments of 2008. We do not know what happened. She will never tell. Her applications were a mess. Her transcript was going to pieces and was a horror story. We do not know what happened, she has never wanted to say. The student that visited colleges in April of her junior year could have gotten in everywhere she applied. The student that ended up applying had so many strikes against her that it would take a miracle. But she insisted on applying to the same schools that were on her list whe she was a different student. She is incredibly lucky that 2 excellent schools have acceped her and that is only because I insisted she expand her list. All college applications were submitted within one minute from the deadline. Nobody was able to proofread. And a miracle did happen and 2 schools wanted to take a chance on her. There is a school for everybody. Beg, borrow and steal. You never know where you will fall in love.</p>
<p>Keilexandra: Yes that is a good strategy and she will have to go through such an exercise. I think her three main priorities are academic rigor, good teachers and intellectually stimulating peers, probably in that order. However, since these three are not independent variables it is difficult to compromise on one without compromising the other two.</p>
<p>academic rigor = difficulty of curriculum
good teachers = personal attention
intellectually stimulating peers = high selectivity (this is probably the one you’ll need to compromise on, by definition of a safety)</p>
<p>Distinctions are possible; for instance, Wooster is known for the rigor of its IS but has an 81% acceptance rate. (It’s too small to be a fit for your D, but an example.)</p>
<p>Thanks Keilexandra, I might owe you $100! Wooster does look interesting. She is not so hung up on size…Swarthmore and Oberlin are on her list.</p>
<p>Academically, I’ve also heard good things about Knox (complaints about social life, however) and Kalamazoo. For low matches, Rochester (small U, maybe closer to a safety but <50% acceptance) or Scripps (women’s college in coed environment, highest acceptance rate of the Claremonts)? Barnard is the other “coed” women’s college, right next to Columbia in NYC, although it might be a middle-match. I know very little about non-LACs, so take my bias into consideration. ;)</p>
<p>^^ Thanks. She won’t look at women’s colleges even the ‘coed’ ones, Rochester is on our radar and we will look at the K’s that you mention.</p>
<p>By the way I have a quibble with one of your statements above: “good teachers = personal attention”. Not necessarily. You can have a great teacher of a large lecture based class that doesn’t know you, and you can have personal attention from a terrible teacher.</p>
<p>Keilexandra, Scripps acceptance rate this year was 30%, possibly because they overenrolled the past two years, and has been gaining ground on peoples radar. I would get the book Colleges that Change Lives because there are a number of great colleges discussed in that book.</p>
<p>Or just go to [Colleges</a> That Change Lives](<a href=“http://www.ctcl.com%5DColleges”>http://www.ctcl.com), which has (less in-depth) info about all the colleges, and its free.</p>
<p>CAS75, maybe we should be worried, because it sounds like our 2 kids were separated at birth.</p>
<p>Mine is a B+/A- student at a private school, in a full IB diploma program. A’s are not easily given there. His SAT total is about 100 points lower than your son’s. He applied to 5 small LACs, with no real safeties. He was going to apply to several others (including U. Vt.), but did not follow through with them once he received an early acceptance by a “match”. Results:</p>
<p>2 NESCAC schools (reach) – rejected
1 mid-Atlantic NESCAC-clone (reach) – wait-listed
2 Associated Colleges of the Midwest (one in St. Paul, one in Colorado, both match or low reach) – accepted</p>
<p>So he’s 2.5 for 5. I think he’s o.k. with this outcome. In fact we had agreed before this month’s news that one of the match schools in many ways was the best fit. </p>
<p>Then about a week ago, we got the finaid letter from that school, which had accepted him in an Early Action. I realized that the merit aid might not be enough, and it is still the only school of the 5 that has offered any aid at all. We were stuck without a financial safety.</p>
<p>So, we got on the phone with admissions at our public “honors” college. They were very accommodating. They agreed to consider his application long after the deadlines officially had closed. We’re still waiting to hear, and are not taking anything for granted. But we’re hopeful.</p>
<p>The application strategy has played out fairly well, although of course the rejections still hurt. He may well wind up at the one school of the 5 that best meets his needs.</p>
<p>But, judging from profiles of accepted and rejected students on CC, it does seem that the admissions criteria or the process or something may be a little out of whack. It’s hard to fathom why kids with very high test scores, good but not perfect grades in challenging courses at superb high schools, and strong ECs, cannot get into one or two “most selective” colleges. I think that at the NESCAC schools, it has a lot to do with how they fill out their sports teams and other activities. So if you are unlucky enough to be the 4th tuba player from NJ who applies that year, you’re at a disadvantage. Or, you may be right that schools consider it a red flag to see high scores combined with what they consider to be too many B’s.</p>
<p>Wow, I didn’t know Scripps had become so selective this year. Good to know.</p>
<p>And definitely my generalizations are flawed; but according to your definition, there are good (and bad) teachers anywhere so it’s a useless criteria.</p>
<p>Best wishes to the OP.</p>
<p>It would be so much easier if we knew the statistics of the rejections as well as the acceptances. </p>
<p>If my kid has an SAT score of XXXX and I knew that a school accepted 90+ percent of kids in that range I would call it a safety. If they accepted 60-70 percent, I’d call it a match and be a little worried. 30 percent and it is a reach.</p>
<p>We don’t usually get that data, though!</p>
<p>The My Chances site shows you a scatter graph of stats for accepted & rejected students, with average GPA and SAT scores. Also the site/user community prediction for your likelihood of being accepted, if you create your profile & enter scores, etc.</p>
<p>The caveat is that if relatively few users of the site have applied to the school you’re trying to assess, the prediction may be based on too little data.</p>
<p>“But, judging from profiles of accepted and rejected students on CC, it does seem that the admissions criteria or the process or something may be a little out of whack. It’s hard to fathom why kids with very high test scores, good but not perfect grades in challenging courses at superb high schools, and strong ECs, cannot get into one or two “most selective” colleges.”</p>
<p>I understand the disappointment of both the OP’s and tk’s children. But leaving aside the issue of sports recruiting (an entirely separate topic), I think the reality is that schools like the high NESCACs (Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, Wesleyan and Bowdoin) and Swarthmore and Haverford can fill their classes with students that have both very high grades (3.75 UW+) and very high test scores (1450+ M + CR). So it takes both to get in.</p>
<p>Keilex: I am saying that size of class and personal attention do not necessarily correlate with good quality teaching. What does correlate with good teaching is whether a school can attract and retain talented and interested teachers and whether the faculty are rewarded for good teaching. Yes, eventually it is up to the individual teacher but overall some schools do a good job of teaching their students, others don’t.</p>
<p>My son has won state level science and other awards, 4.0 avg uw all through high school, football captain, 5 on every AP test (taken at least 6 courses), did 2 years of research at a university and is competing for national awards, lots of leadership, great essays…but got rejected at Georgetown, which threw us. He has done all his research there, got great recs and the counselor even made sure that admissions director knew of his recent awards. Is it worth calling to find out why? He still has a few more schools to hear from, and he did get in at UVA, which is a terrific option. But G-town was his first choice and he just wants to know what happened.</p>
<p>What were his test scores? Georgetown has gotten very hot.</p>
<p>Jeli, the truth is probably nothing. There were just too many other great kids, perhaps too many kids like him. They might have accepted a squash player instead, or a historian. They probably don’t even know why. At some point his application just didn’t excite the right people - assuming he gets into other schools of the same caliber, I’d just chalk it up to the luck of the draw. </p>
<p>If admissions seem way off, i.e. your son gets rejected even at his safeties, it’s worth checking if something went wrong. I’ve heard horror stories of transcripts with incorrect grades for example. An old boyfriend of mine had his med school applications sabotaged the first time by a pre-med adviser who took a dislike to him. He took a couple of years off, worked in a hospital, and reapplied without the adviser’s letter this time and got in the second time round. (Truth to tell, I suspect the time off did him good.)</p>
<p>Thanks, mathmom. His scores were the weakest part of his application—2190 I think. It is hard to know what they want. His principal said maybe the fact one of his essays was about leading the football team through a tough season turned off a reader who may not be a football person. I know there are so many good applicants, but it would have been easier had he been rejected EA vs. being deferred and then rejected. I think it’s harder on him because he has gotten so attached to Georgetown. Oh well…here’s hoping for some more choices. Thanks for your support.</p>
<p>I agree with the use of a ‘gap’ year. A nephew of mine with outstanding grades, scores, etc but weak essay and answers to questions aimed to high for top engineering schools. He was not accepted at any of the schools his heart led him to and while accepted at some others (backups) he had other issues to deal with. He took a ‘gap’ year and taught in an inner society for one year and meanwhile went through his thought process about which schools to apply too. He got into a school that while new is actually outstanding and from all outward appearances the best fit for him. It was a long year to be sure. It was not without some emotional pain and struggle. But in the end that one year has served him and will continue to serve him incredibly well for the lessons learned.</p>
<p>D. got rejected from #1 on her list, did not think twice or got upset, just went to #2 where she is very happy with a lot of opportunities. She graduated #1 in her HS class and did apply to any elite school, she applied to selective programs at state schools and had 50% success at them. Just be realistic and it is not by far the end of the world. Appreciate what you have, and you never know which place is actually was better.</p>