Help a lost student find her college list! Sunshine will come your way!

Parents Forum
1

<p>I posted this on the search and selection, and people suggested that I post here as you all might have some good ideas :) </p>

<p>BACKGROUND:
*Basically, my parents are of no help whatsoever. They believe that I can get into ANY school, no matter what I say to try and persuade them. So basically they REFUSE to look for matches/safeties because they think that they are "beneath" me. Plus, English is their second language so they don't really understand the info thrown at them, and all they look at is the USNews Rankings. </p>

<ul>
<li>nomad female asian girl whose family keeps on moving to different continents - -" I'm a Permanent Resident though. </li>
</ul>

<p>*Finance: huge factor. My family just immigrated to America, and makes so little money that if we don't even meet the cutoff for tuition and stuff at the colleges that fulfill 100% demonstrated need.
I really do not want to take out student loans, and I wouldn't dream of asking my parents for money either as they could not possibly afford it and I would feel incredibly guilty. </p>

<p>*Also, I'm considering whether or not to do business major, so i can start work right out of college, or do grad school (and somehow find a way to finance that, another worry). </p>

<ul>
<li>I would like to do something either humanities based (Gov, politics) or business (for above mentioned practical reasons). </li>
</ul>

<p>STATS:</p>

<p>SAT: 2290. Math: 730, CR: 800 WR: 760
SATIIs: Chinese 800, US history: (projected 770+), Math2C i'm retaking because our school actually did NOT teach us stuff that was on the exam at all! </p>

<p>UWGPA: 3.9+
GPA: 4.2
courses: hardest possible
Junior year: all A’s 1st semester in APEL, APUSH, APBio, Honors Pre-Calc, Honors Spanish 6 journalism (GPA 4.5)
2nd semester: All A’s except for a B in Honors Pre-Calc, journalism (GPA4.3) </p>

<p><em>will this decrease in semester GPA affect my chances drastically?</em> :/</p>

<p>Senior year:
APLit
APPsych
APGov
APCalc
physics
journalism
probably will end up taking a CC course on Music as I missed the deadline for online summer classes and I hated Drama. </p>

<p>ECs:
-editor-in-chief of national award winning newspaper
-president/secretary of NHS
-won numerous local speech and debate competitions, state qualifier
-represented city in national/ regional competitions, placed 3rd
-vice president/ publicity chair of speech and debate
-won an international bilingual competition in summer of 8th grade(I’m probably just going to mention this in my essay or something like that)
-over three years of volunteering teaching Chinese to kids at local Chinese school
-member of peer counseling since freshmen year / in leadership
-And I’m working on starting my own T-shirt company after a trial batch sold out. </p>

<p>RECS: great, I have really good relationships with both teachers outside of school and I'm planning on also sending a letter from my journalism advisor who loves me. :P </p>

<p>Right now, I’m def. going to apply to UPenn, and I think I'm giving up my dream of Wharton (that B in math, plus the fact that I'm just not a math person in general)! Though I’m applying RD, and APCalc is a lot easier to get an A in at my school, so I’m hoping that they will see that I get an A in Calc next semester to make up for that B in Pre-calc this semester. Though I probably wouldn't have gotten in anyway. </p>

<p>I’ll really like a more liberal arts focused school and professor accessibility, but right now I’m still undecided as to what I want to do with my life, and I still don’t know if I want to do grad school. Also, warm weather is also preferable, and so are good study-abroad programs. </p>

<p>Any suggestions/ chances these schools and for matches/ safeties ? </p>

<p>Some names that have been thrown out there:
Claremont McKenna
Pomona
USC
Georgetown
Tulane
Denison
UChicago
Smith/ Mt. Holoyke
UCLA
Cal (honors)
UCSB
Stanford
Northwestern </p>

<p>thanks! good vibes will be coming your way if you hit that reply button!</p>

2

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html?highlight=free+ride%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html?highlight=free+ride&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>You might want to look at this thread related to full scholarships.</p>

3

<p>I'm not a parent (don't ask what I'm doing here, haha), but I'll say that your academic stats (GPA+SAT) are basically identical to what mine were(UWGPA: 3.98 and SAT 2290 (800W 800M 690R). A lot will depend on your class rank, which I didn't see. I'll assume its in line with the rest of your app so ignore everything I say if its not. Other than that I'd say your ECs are much better than mine were; my recs were pretty good, but I didn't have "relationships with teachers outside of school" or anything, haha. When I applied I got into all of the schools on my list that matched yours except Stanford (ie. Chicago, UCLA, Cal, Northwestern).</p>

<p>In my opinion, you have a very decent chance at all the top schools if you emphasize your passion (which seems to be journalism or government) in your apps. Along those lines, it is my opinion that if that's your current list you have way too many safeties. </p>

<p>I would suggest Stanford and Penn (Wharton) as reaches (they are for "everybody")
Northwestern and Georgetown as match-reach. I think you'd be really happy at Northwestern's great Journalism school if you do decide there or be very happy at Gtown's gov/polysci.
Cal, UCLA, UChic, as matches.
USC as safety-match.
I don't know anything about your other safeties. Pick 1 or 2 that you know you can get into. Definitely pick one though!</p>

<p>Since I'm at Duke, I have to make a personal plug for Duke. Come to Duke!</p>

<p>Hope that helped. Good luck!</p>

4

<p>I think the first thing you need to decide is whether the school has to have a business major or minor. If it does, you will quickly eliminate about two-thirds of possible schools (and virtually all liberal arts colleges) from consideration. That is a GOOD thing - it will make your task easier. But if it isn't necessary, you need to know it. </p>

<p>Warm weather will elminate a bunch of schools, starting with Chicago (and all schools in the upper Midwest and northeast). Again, if this is true, it will make your life easier. </p>

<p>Finally, you need to decide how important professor accessibility and liberal arts focus really is. Yes, you can get them at any school. But these are the things liberal arts colleges do best - in fact, they wouldn't exist (and wouldn't be valued as highly as they are) except for these characteristics.</p>

<p>So that gives you three screens:
- Business major/minor?
- Warm weather?
- Liberal arts/professor accessibility</p>

<p>If the answer is "yes, yes, yes" - you will find only a few schools that fit the bill. If "yes, yes, no", you'll find a bigger pool. If "no, yes, yes", a big but different pool. And if "no, no, no" - you're back to square one.</p>

5

<p>I kind of agree with your parents. Why wouldn't you get in just about anywhere? Granted, HYPSM are a crapshoot for everyone, but look through the CC top universities and top liberal arts colleges, think about maybe three of HYPSM if they appeal to you, and then another half-dozen of the bunch, and then add a UC other than Berkeley or LA as your financial / admission safety. Holy cow, your SAT and GPA averages are above the median for every school in the country!</p>

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<p>You have a good list with safeties, especially if you apply early action to a few of the choices. As Mini said, if you apply your screens, you will cut that list down drastically.</p>

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<p>"think about maybe three of HYPSM if they appeal to you"</p>

<p>Why? How many of the screens do they pass? (HYPM don't pass a single one of them.)</p>

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<p>Athene - Wonderful stats. Congrats! Getting into schools won't be a problem for you. You do have a "gatekeeper" decision to deal with first. With exception of Wharton and one or two others, UG in Business may not be best. Numerous (old) threads have discussed the issue of whether it's advisable to do UG in Business followed by an MBA. The general concensus was "study what you want as an UG, and then do your MBA." Also, financial aid will be a challenge, mostly because your parents are unlikely to have expertise in that area. Read the thread dsultemier suggests. Good luck to you!</p>

9

<p>Wake Forest has weather, undergrad biz and a top study abroad program. Vandy & Emory have weather adn biz. </p>

<p>But, to add Finance to mini's three screens (to make four), you'll have to look at the few top dogs (who have great finaid programs), or lower tier, merit schools. </p>

<p>UC finaid is not great even if you are in-state; even those with zero incomes recieve loans. If you are OOS, drop them from the list since you would have to incur significant debt.</p>

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<p>Thanks to everybody who replied, I'm sending out my sunshine-y brainwaves right now! ;) </p>

<p>I haven't whittled down that list yet, it's just some names I've been mulling over plus suggestions from other folks from the other thread. Though I should be doing that really soon, and apply screens as well. </p>

<p>on my screens:
Warm weather: preferable, but not necessarily the most crucial deciding factor. If there's a school that I aboslutely love, even if it's on the East Coast and cold as heck, I'd probably go there if I got in. I think i'm just spoiled by Cali's weather :P </p>

<p>Business major: I think I'm going to split my search for strong programs/majors two ways: the business major route and the political science/government route. So one school could fulfill one but not necessarily fill the other, if you get my gist. That way I still have my options open when I finally make that decision. </p>

<p>NewHope33: may I ask why UG is not preferable for business? I would go that route, (liberal arts, then MBA) but I'm just worried about financing grad school. </p>

<p>Professor accessibility: the reason why this is rather important to me, is because I've heard how awful the teaching is at large, humongeous schools such as UCLA. I'm in-state, as well. </p>

<p>But then again, my other friends have pointed out to me that they all have TA's and reading sections.</p>

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<p>Nowadays, ALL accredited business programs REQUIRE that more than half the credits earned be in the liberal arts. </p>

<p>There are schools where you can do both. My d. (at American) is planning a dual degree in International Business and International Relations (at the School of International Service - Arabic specialty). Some other schools where I know you can do both, where I am absolutely sure you will get in, and likely get a bunch of merit money as well would be Santa Clara (benefit of weather as well, and a top 25 business school), Denver (but it's cold! school of Condeleeza Rice), University of Pittsburgh (also cold!), George Washington. You'd probably get the most personal attention at the smallest (Santa Clara and American, especially since you'd be in the honors programs at both, as you would at the other schools as well.)</p>

<p>Most folks don't go to MBAs directly after UG. In fact, the best MBA programs actively discourage it. So if you think strongly you might want to do business, undergraduate business programs that also have internship programs give you a strong leg up.</p>

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<p>"may I ask why UG is not preferable for business? I would go that route, (liberal arts, then MBA) but I'm just worried about financing grad school."</p>

<p>I'm tempted to say "for the same reasons most lawyers don't do pre-law as UGs." While true, that's way too brusque. What I'd suggest instead is that in the rarefied air of CollegeConfidential, students (such as yourself) are not only supremely capable, but it is anticipated that they will be very successful in their careers. That means (1) that two years of MBA study is adequate preparation, and (2) the people you can expect to work with will have many interests beyond business.</p>

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<p>I posted this response on the other board but I will say it again because I think it bears repeating. The OP is indicating that money is a huge factor. She is in CA. There are LOTS of schools in CA which would be a good fit.
I live in CA and have a son in school in Boston. The extra cost associated with the distance has to be considered in this equation.
There are great schools all over the country but when money is a big factor it might be prudent to look closer to home.</p>

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<p>I would say that the world of work is too interconnected and broad for a more narrow work related education such as engineering, education or business in undergrad, to be preferable to saving that focus for after your BA.</p>

<p>An education that gives you the bigger picture with study in fields that may not seem connected * now*, IMO will give you a better foundation for where your world may take you.</p>

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<p>I would say that, for many students, the world has become far too specialized, and the interconnections among those specializations too great for a liberal arts education, by itself, to serve them particularly well. I think this is especially true in certain aspects of business - international business, real estate, accounting - where most students never go on to graduate study, and where MBA programs specifically discourage students from attending directly after undergraduate education.</p>

<p>Accredited business programs today are NOT what they were 30 years ago. All of them require a minimum of 50% of classes be in the liberal arts. In addition, the breadth and depth requirements are often greater than for liberal arts students. All of them require classes in math and writing - not all liberal arts programs do. Some require language acquisition - many liberal arts programs do not. Many have distribution requirements - some liberal arts colleges do not. Some programs in international business require study abroad (often in the language of the country) - virtually no liberal arts programs require the same.</p>

<p>I think many folks carry around images of business education as it exists 3 years ago. The reality now is far different.</p>

16

<p>You might want to consider Rice. It now offers a business minor, has a strong poli sci department, warm weather, small classes, great interaction with faculty and great financial and merit aid. It is also has a very diverse, integrated student body and is well represented by Chinese and Chinese-Americans.</p>

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<p>I think many folks carry around images of business education as it exists 3 years ago. The reality now is far different.</p>

<p>I'd disagree.
The UW requires that 59 credits ( on qtr system- 5 credit is a full time class) be taken under General Education requirements.
That comes to one full time class every term assuming you are in school for 4 years.</p>

<p>I also would still argue that a major in global studies, language, economics, geography, or any one of a number of traditional undergraduate degrees, would better prepare a student for the larger business world than an armful of stat, marketing and operations management courses combined with filler classes from general ed</p>

18

<p>If you want a safety school that you would likely get a full-ride to (and can apply for free on the common app), look into Rollins. It's a small LAC in Orlando that attracts a lot of kids for its econ and international business departments. A program that is popular here is a 3/2 undergrad/MBA program, which would be extremely cost effective since you could likely get that 5th year paid for to. Also, they offer a lot of work-study options so you could save money to fly home, go out to dinner with friends, etc.</p>

<p>You would definitely be a candidate for their full-ride scholarship, and when you get the invitation to the scholarship weekend they fly you and a parent over there. It's definitely not on the same level as say Rice or UCLA, but you would definitely have a wealth of opportunities with the small size, and the financial factor would be hard to beat.</p>

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<p>"he UW requires that 59 credits ( on qtr system- 5 credit is a full time class) be taken under General Education requirements.
That comes to one full time class every term assuming you are in school for 4 years.</p>

<p>I also would still argue that a major in global studies, language, economics, geography, or any one of a number of traditional undergraduate degrees, would better prepare a student for the larger business world than an armful of stat, marketing and operations management courses combined with filler classes from general ed."</p>

<p>UW has a junior-year business school entry, which means that ALL courses prior to that are in the liberal arts. The SAME courses taken by all those liberal arts majors (except that there were several specific requirements, including macro and micro, and calc.) With one difference. The potential business majors have to pass those liberal arts classes with a higher GPA requirement in order to be admitted to the business program. The liberal arts majors - in the same courses - can get by with 2.0; recently, the floor for the business program has been above 3.0, depending on the year. In the same courses.</p>

<p>(The reason I know this is that my younger d. was admitted to the program, and specifically had to examine the requirements. I have two d.'s - one just graduated from a LAC, the other planning to double major - international business (accounting) and language/cultural studies. The requirements for the younger one are far stiffer.)</p>

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<p>USC is looking for hi stat students like you. make SURE you complete you complete your application by DEC 1 in order to be considered for scholarship purposes. they award around 100 full tuition scholarships per year. make sure your essays sing! and be sure that you write something about yourself that is not apparent from the other parts of your application. good luck</p>