There are several online loan calculators that will demonstrate how much interest will accrue and the amount that will be needed to pay back. Are they planning on co-signing the loans? There are many who borrowed, fell behind on payments, and can’t even start paying back the principle due to paying down just the interest.
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Do you know what “opportunity costs” are? Let’s assume not. So, you have a $200K loan. You have to repay it. Currently, that loan at 4.5% over 20 years is $1,265.30/month. So, what could you do with that money? Buy a house? Have a kid? Star a business? Retire early? Travel? Invest? What would you do? So, would the opportunity of going to universities that would require $200k in loans offset the backend cost of what you could do with $1,265.30/month, every month for 20 years (assuming you get that interest rate, which is a laugh). That’s “opportunity cost”.
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Those are good suggestions! I will look into those schools. I’ve visited Lafayette and I liked the school itself. It did seem to be less diverse than maybe some of the other schools I looked into (I am a POC so diversity is somewhat important to me) and had a preppy vibe.
I haven’t been able to shadow a doctor or a PA, but I am a riding member of our local ambulance corps and have firsthand experience in medical situations. It’s definitely something I’m passionate about.
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You can reach out to the schools’ financial aid offices and ask for an appointment and have them run through your family’s situation to see if they can give you insight into what type of financial contribution they would expect from your family, as the NPC is not as likely to be accurate for your family. Then you would know whether they’d expect $30-40k or $60k or more, and then make your plans accordingly.
A 33ACT with an unweighted GPA around 98 is strong, and you can likely get some generous merit aid packages with that. Binghamton, Stony Brook, and Arizona State should all be within budget (assuming a budget of $30k). The other schools are unlikely to give you sufficient merit aid to reach $30-40k, and most of them wouldn’t hit $60k either). There’s also a big difference between $30k and $40k when looking at colleges. See if you can get your family to nail down a number they would feel comfortable working with.
With respect to the loan numbers, if you borrowed $200,000 in loans and received a 20-year loan with a fixed 4.5% interest rate, then you would pay an extra $103,671 in interest (so borrow $200k, pay back $303k). If a loan is not a federally subsidized loan (max $27k total over 4 years) then interest starts accruing immediately, while you’re still in school. So when you graduate from college the interest over your 4 years of undergrad is added to your balance. If you go to graduate school the interest from that time period is added to your balance. As you can see, this just snowballs and becomes super hard for people to get out from under.
Also, if you’re paying $1200+/month in student loans, you may have difficulty qualifying for a car loan, and definitely for a house loan. You may have a hard time putting any money away for retirement. But, let’s imagine a world where you don’t take out loans. Once you start working you invest $1200/month in a retirement account for 20 years. With a 6% of rate of return, you would have $544,128 at the end of those 20 years. So take out $200k in loans and you’ll pay back more than $300k and have a net of $0 20 years after starting to pay back your loans. Or, take out no loans and put that money in a retirement account and have $544k in your account. To me, it’s a no-brainer.
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Not sure this is a practical plan. IIRC some of the nursing science courses are not the same as for the pre-meds. @WayOutWestMom am I making that up? Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Actually…this is good experience…but no, you don’t have experience in doctor medical situations. Please find a way to shadow a doctor, PA, APRN or someone like that. This will give you a better and much broader look at what medicine really entails.
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Is that per year (so $240k total for elite university, $120-160k total for other universities), or total (so $15k per year for elite university, $7.5-10k per year for other universities)?
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If you decide PA is right for you then seriously consider looking into 5 year programs. It’ll save you money and time. Rather than going 4 years for a bachelors then 2-3 for PA school you would complete in 5 years. Elizabethtown college has one and I believe Thomas Jefferson in Philadelphia as well. Research what the requirements are to stay in the program but it’s likely not higher than what would be required to apply for a stand alone PA or MD school.
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One thing to help dissuade your parent from insisting on $200K in loans is managable–tell them that having “excessive” loans from undergrad will prevent you from qualifying for the loans you’ll need to pay for your medical education. Given that med school costs $350K-$500K, you’ll need those loans.
Also remember that newly graduated physicians do not earn the “big doctor bucks” right away. Med grad must first complete a medical residency (and often a fellowship) first. Residency lasts 3-7 years. Fellowship adds another 1-3 years. Residents and fellows are relatively poorly paid ($52K/year while working 80 hours/week). Most residents cannot afford to start paying off the loans during residency so loan interest keeps adding to their overall debt.
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I can think of a few things.
One is that people who have recently graduated from university frequently do not make all that much. They frequently only just make enough to live on. When students take out loans sometimes they need to live with their parents in order to save money so that they can afford to pay the loans. This can severely restrict what jobs they can take, specifically because you are so restricted in terms of where you can get a job.
In contrast, when my older daughter graduated from university she took on an absolute dream job 2,000 miles from home (or at least 2,000 miles from her parents). She loved the job, but it barely paid well enough for her to live on. It gave her great experience. This job led to a different job in the same area at a veterinary clinic. The main veterinarian at that clinic took a liking to her, which led to her assisting with a variety of tasks such as surgery, which in turn helped a great deal with her getting accepted to a great DVM program (where she just finished her first year). If she had been paying off loans she would be living with us, which would have restricted her options quite a bit.
I used to have a guitar teacher who had gotten half way through his bachelor’s degree with a lot of debt and discovered that he and his parents taken together could no longer qualify to borrow any more money. He had a lot of debt, but no degree. He had to transfer to an affordable in-state public university to finish his degree. He would have been far better off if he had just started at the in-state public university. He had to give a LOT of guitar lessons to pay off his debt for the degree that he never got.
Occasionally here on CC we hear from students who similarly are unable to borrow enough money to complete their degree. It is possible to get part way through your degree with a pile of debt and discover that you have reached your borrowing limit. Of course this limits both the student’s and the parent’s ability to borrow money for anything else.
My youngest needed a car for an internship that she was offered when she was in university. Not having any debt made it easier to afford the car. The internship again was helpful to her, and helped her get additional internships in the future, which helped her get a good job after graduation. Because she has now graduated with no debt at all, she is able to live on her own with a short commute to a very good job. She is even able to put some money into a 401k which will help a great deal 45 years from now (the value over time of money sitting tax free for 45 years in long term investments is quite large). The “opportunity cost” as @Peruna1998 says of being unable to fund your retirement funds, or of being unable to take the dream job far that is out of commute range of your parents home, can be very significant.
The majority of students who show up at university intending to be premed never end up applying to medical school. The majority of students who apply to medical school do not get accepted anywhere. Having some flexibility in your plans can help you to find a good path going forward whether you get accepted to medical school or not. Having no debt can make it far easier to be flexible in your plans.
And of course having no debt for your bachelor’s degree can make it easier to borrow the money needed to get through medical school.
Many doctors spend a LONG time (decades) paying off their education debt.
@AustenNut has a good point that having no debt, once you get a job, can make it easier to get both a car (which you will probably need for your first job) and to purchase a house. Over time the appreciation of value of the house can be significant. If you are in debt, instead the interest on the loan can build up over time.
And, being from NY state you have very good in-state public universities.
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The hospitals near me are very particular with who they allow to shadow. I would be able to intern at the end of senior year through a school program if I get accepted, but until then my shadowing opportunities are very limited.
Yeah, it does sound like SUNYs are my best option at the moment. Thank you for your input. Had no idea financial aid offices were able to do that. And your insight into loans is very helpful.
I guess I have to somehow lose my (and my parents’) fixation on a more “prestigious” elite uni.
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Will 5 year programs be extremely competitive? I know BS/MD programs are cutthroat and often require lots of shadowing/medical experiences. Is a 5 year PA program the same way? Because as I understand it, PA admissions are just as if not more competitive than medical school admissions and I can’t imagine that a 5 year PA program would be realistic to get accepted into as a high school kid with no shadowing experience.
That would be per year.
I actually thought it was a great plan for all of 2 days until I read something that said medical schools generally don’t like it when nursing majors apply, which made sense to me at the time. I may be wrong though.
If your parents are willing to contribute $30-40k per year, wouldn’t in-state SUNY schools fit in that budget even if you did not get any scholarships or financial aid?
Yup they would! I already have some on my list. (Bing, Stony). If I were to go to those schools though, my parents would contribute less and I would still take out loans and work a job. Currently though, SUNYs are definitely affordable and I’m pretty sure I’d be accepted. My question was for more schools that could potentially be affordable and reasonable admissions wise.
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Since you are first gen URM, you should definitely follow up on the idea of contacting financial aid offices of selective schools to find out how accurate the Net Price Calculators might be for your family. Highly selective LACs such as Amherst are great for premed, and they give excellent financial aid. You have a good shot at these types of schools with your stats and first gen URM status.
As far as a match school in an urban area, check out Rhodes for premed. Partnerships with St. Judes and about 45% acceptance rate. I think you’d get the total COA down to around 30k with merit. As mentioned above, Macalester seems like a great fit as well if you can get the finances to work.
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Is it that your family wants you to have “skin in the game” because they think you will take school more seriously if you do? Or do they intend on having you take out up to the max federal loans ($27k total over 4 years) and then they will pay the rest, up to $30-40k? Is working a job to be your manner of getting spending money, or are they expecting you to use that money for tuition?
Perhaps you might discuss with your family what they might do if you chose a less expensive school. For instance, if they were willing to spend $30k but you go to a school for $20k, would they consider splitting the difference with you (i.e. a $10k/year savings would mean $5k to you, whether for grad school, study abroad, car, retirement fund, etc)? Or if you went to a school where your costs were $10k, that the savings of $20k/year would be split? If you got a full tuition scholarship, would they still think that you would need to take additional loans?
As you would prefer to remain in the northeast, you may also want to look into the U. of Maine as it has some generous scholarships for out-of-state students. If you’re willing to further afield, Oglethorpe in Atlanta and Hendrix in Arkansas (the latter of which is part of the College That Change Lives organization) also offer flagship matches for eligible students, and I’m pretty sure you’d qualify. Arizona and Alabama would also give you very generous scholarships.
Did you take the PSAT?
I think it’s mostly them thinking that I should take the brunt of financing college. Like I noted before, they don’t view loans as something serious and a potential source of tremendous financial strain in the future. They’ve been encouraging me to apply to schools where we may not get much financial aid at all and urging me to just take out massive loans that they “may help” pay back in the future. Again, they’re not exactly familiar with the college admissions process and don’t seem to understand how little most college grads make starting out, haha. So yes, the job would be to help pay for tuition and I would be expected to take out at least the maximum in federal loans.
Your suggestion is definitely a good one. I could bring it up with them.
I did take the PSAT. Unfortunately for me, I’m good at the wrong test. If only the ACT had an award that has the same kind of national acclaim as NMF. PSAT score may get commended, but definitely won’t qualify for much more than that.