<p>I had a 2.5 my first trimester at college. It was primarily a result of never having had to study before and not knowing what to do or who to ask for help. And I wasn't living away from home, dealing with that adjustment, or partying -- it was simply a matter of not being prepared and feeling overwhelmed. I would have the student in question look at maybe taking one less class (if the school would permit it) and find out about academic counseling/tutoring for the classes he does take so he can learn how to study, manage his time and prepare for tests and papers.</p>
<p>I also wouldn't pull my kid out for one semester, but there would be some talking to figure out what happened. And the next semester would be the deal breaker.</p>
<p>I will share what happened with son's roommate. This student--very, very bright--near perfect SAT, merit scholarship--ended up with around a 2.5 first semester. His parents thought "okay, getting adjusted", next semester was 2.0--still he convinced them that it was adjustment problems. First semester sophomore year was less than a .1 (3 Fs and 1 C). He was asked by the college to leave (already on probation). He went home for 1 semester and found out quickly that he didn't want to live with parents again, hated CC. He returned this fall and is doing well. His problem?--not going to class, not turning in papers on time or at all, some partying--but mainly just not getting up for class, poor time management, procrastination and extremely poor organizational skills. His parents did have him tested (nothing there) and he did receive counseling--was more motivational issue.</p>
<p>I agree with the "figure out what's going on" crowd.</p>
<p>Our oldest, with a 1470 M/V SAT, 4.43 GPA, AP credits out the wazoo, etc., got a 2.0 his first semester. At Christmas we had several serious talks with him about the repercussions of losing his scholarship because of grades (including putting the facts and figures in writing). So he got a 2.0 spring semester. </p>
<p>At this point we decided that we weren't up for funding a 4 year party at our state flagship U, and if he was going to pull a 2.0, he could come home and go to the local CC or figure out an alternative. The alternative was loans and working and very nearly flunking out altogether. So during the spring semester of his sophomore year he started checking out the support on campus, including student medical and mental health services. </p>
<p>This eventually led to a long-overdue but not surprising diagnosis of ADD. His academic strengths coupled with his parents structural support (not going to class was NOT an option living in OUR home) had masked this.</p>
<p>Ultimately, he has gotten the support he needs on campus, we have stepped back in with financial support, and he is bringing his GPA up. BUT, IMO, when someone starts performing far below their abilities, SOMETHING is up, and our job as parents is to help our kids figure out WHAT. Depression, ADD, chemicals, drugs, alcohol, poor study habits, bad associations... the possibilities go on and on. But, having been in your shoes, with 20/20 hindsight, I wish we had taken that first semester grade drop more seriously, and been more aggressive in figuring out what was going on.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Well, I am not in the "they are just having problems handling it academically" camp. When I met him, my ex-husband was in the middle of failing out of a big state U in the minimum number of quarters possible. He had been a 3.5 or so student in high school, in gifted classes. He was in honors classes, but he wasn't having problems handling them. He just didn't go. He was busy doing social things, drinking, and spending time with girls. (He lived in a coed dorm and new the name of every girl in it!) When I met him, it was the last month of spring quarter. He was spending lots of time with me every day, and I would see him doing other social things with our computer network friends. I asked him when he ever had time for class, and he was sort of like, "Oh, uh, yeah." Turns out for many of his classes, he had shown up only 2-3 times. He tried to "fix" it by going to see the professors during finals week, but they all pretty much said that they had no reason to work with him if he hadn't cared enough to show up. </p>
<p>He failed out after 4 quarters. He never had a single quarter above the level of academic probation. He wasn't in a frat, he wasn't getting drunk every single night. He just had never had to manage all his own time, and he spent it doing all the other things he could do at college. My understanding is that at this point, he tells people he had undiagnosed ADD, but I don't know. He has never been able to return to college, and has mostly worked as a secretary since leaving college. </p>
<p>The thing is, he wasn't alone. Of all of our circle of 20+ friends, the people I met there, only <em>one</em> graduated in 4 years. Most dropped out, though none left as fast as my ex. </p>
<p>As a result, my son and I have talked a lot about how getting into college is only the start, and his "job" now is <em>staying</em> in college. We have an agreement that if he's on academic probation, he will take a year off <em>before</em> the point of academic dismissal. I feel strongly that the bottom line is that some people aren't mature enough to be able to handle college as 17-19 year olds, and that it's a lot easier to come back after taking some time before you get thrown out. </p>
<p>My ex's parents had no idea he wasn't doing well in school until he failed out. I am sure they wanted to believe that he was just having problems adjusting academically. I am sure a <em>lot</em> of parents, especially CC-style parents, want to believe that their students get lower grades only because they are having problems "adapting to the different academic style" of college. But honestly, college is like a giant theme park compared to the backyard of high school, and it's easy for even the best most studious responsible student to become distracted by the metaphorical amusement rides and midway. </p>
<p>My honest suggestion is to make an agreement now with your student about what will happen in the event that they have grades below a certain agreed upon threshhold. For the original poster, make a plan for how the student will improve, what consistitutes improvement, and what will happen if the improvement doesn't happen. Then <em>stick to that plan</em> for the coming semester.</p>
<p>I had similar grades my first year in college, on the heels of stellar h.s. stats at a fine public school. I just did not know how to study, balance my time, etc. It took me my first year to get on track. Sophomore year, I made Dean's List (very difficult to do at my particular college). I never obsessed, nor did my parents. I just figured out what adjustments I needed to make & made them. S$@& happens. It's how we handle it that determines whether or not we'll be okay in the end. Of course, I paid for school myself, so I was pretty invested in getting my money's worth.</p>
<p>Well, maybe it's one thing or maybe it's another. Having a talk with the student certainly sounds like a good idea. That's what my Dad did with me, with no effect whatsoever. What I'd suggest is having the student reduce academic load to the full-time minimum for Spring Semester, and make sure you see those mid-term grades. (Yes I know that sounds harsh, but really, a 1.98?)</p>
<p>This is all just speculation in regards to the OP's daughter, but to make a more general statement, I would stress that bad GPAs are NOT always the result of intense partying/drugs/apathy/etc. I know many students who limit themselves in these regards and genuinely try to do well, but struggle nonetheless. College is a big adjustment from high school- it's not just harder, but it's a different kind of workload too. Students who earned the bulk of their grades in HS doing hw and projects might not be prepared to study for a final exam worth 50% of their overall grade. There's a lot more pressure to keep up, and it can be very easy to find yourself way behind. </p>
<p>Still, I think any GPA under a 2.0 warrants a talk with your child and some investigation as to a more explicit cause. Just don't rush to accuse your child of bad behavior or an attitude problem, when she may be trying her best and still struggling.</p>
<p>This happened to me too. Only a 1.98 would have been good! </p>
<p>My problems were lack of study skills (breezed through HS with NO effort) and incredible immaturity. (Who said every 17 and 18 year old is ready for college??)</p>
<p>Anyway, after struggling a second semester, I dropped out. I then worked some pretty bad jobs that motivated me to WANT to go to school. When I eventually returned (3 years later) I was dean's list all the way through and later earned a JD and a PhD. The folks at my original college would be shocked!!</p>
<p>I now work with academically-talented students. Many do struggle a bit when they first get to college because it is different and more demanding than what they are accustomed to in HS. Most do well fairly quickly.</p>
<p>BUT every year we have some freshmen who REALLY struggle and end up with GPAs below 2.0. There are myriad reasons why they struggle - from undiagnosed learning disorders, to depression, to poor time-management skills, all the way to major partying.</p>
<p>(Ironically, my own experience has been VERY helpful in my job. And my story often gives hope to the parents of struggling students!) </p>
<p>My best advice to OP is 1) talk to your D and see what she thinks was the problem and 2) have her talk with her academic advisor AND any faculty members she trusts about what resources are available to help her at school. (If she's still home on break, she should call those people even before she returns.) </p>
<p>I think it's far too premature to pull her out. There is help available and if she is motivated to stay in school, she should take advantage of it. Help her come up with a plan to succeed. I'm sure she will (even if it takes longer than you'd like.)</p>
<p>sany, you know your daughter better than any of us. You know her academic strengths and weaknesses, and you know (or should find out) how those compare to her courseload. </p>
<p>Last year, our quasi-adopted son (I call him my 'son'- he's been best friends with our kids since elementary school and practically lives at the house) was failing after his first semester. H sat down and talked to him- he asked about each class he had taken, how difficult the class seemed to him, and why, and what the events and conditions were that led up to failure. This was done class by class, because there are different reasons for different classes. Maybe one class was just too advanced. Maybe in another, he bombed the first exam and then just gave up. In another, he was 'bored' and didn't attend. Overall, he spent way too much time with his fraternity brothers and not enough at the library. And he didn't have a clear plan for what he wanted to study, or overwhelming interest in most of his classes. At any rate, you need to get behind the number and figure out exactly what happened. If your D is not willing to discuss it with you, that's another problem entirely.</p>
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At any rate, you need to get behind the number and figure out exactly what happened. If your D is not willing to discuss it with you, that's another problem entirely.
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</p>
<p>One thing to keep in mind...if, and I want to stress that "if", the D has some undiagnosed disorder/disability, she may have absolutely no idea why she did poorly. She doesn't know that how she perceives/feels/is unable to focus/whatever is not everyone's experience. If you ask her what went wrong, she may very well be repeating "I don't know, I really don't know" for the entire conversation, and it doesn't necessarily mean that she's lying.</p>
<p>Jessie's point also is a good reason to suggest that your D get an assessment from the campus counseling center or learning center, both of which may have ways of identifying LDs and teaching effective study skills.</p>
<p>Didn't mean to suggest that an "I don't know" answer means lying. If the answer is "I went to class, did the homework, kept up as best I could, and I don't know why but I failed anyway", then that's an answer. In that case, you can eliminate a lot of other causes (partying, socializing, video games, whatever...) I meant not discussing it as in, "I'm not going to discuss it with you."</p>
<p>"If the answer is "I went to class, did the homework, kept up as best I could, and I don't know why but I failed anyway", then that's an answer. In that case, you can eliminate a lot of other causes (partying, socializing, video games, whatever...) "</p>
<p>Unfortunately, many students (including my older S and many of the college students with low grades whom I used to teach) who party and skip class don't tell their parents. The students also may never have partied until they went to college, so their parents may have no clue that's what caused the grade problems.</p>
<p>One thing that should be clear from the variety of posts is that none of us knows enough about the situation to give specific advice (although statistically, I suspect that some combination of too much partying and courses that were too hard is a more likely explanation then some hitherto undiagnosed psychological problem). One thing, however, is clear--it is the girl's responsibility, not the parents' to figure out the cause an fix it. So beyond the "what were you doing? what do you think is wrong? what are you going to do about it? is there any way we can help?" conversation, i tshould be made clear that if the situation does not improve next semester she is outta there--either to the local CC or to a job for a year.</p>
<p>I also want to say that I think this parent is really brave. It's easy to talk about our kids' successes, but it's really tough (especially when so many parents here have kids who are high achievers) to admit that a kid is having a problem. This parent deserves a gold star and a happy ending -- and should know that this thread can definitely help other parents.</p>
<p>Jessie's point is an excellent one. A lot of students worked very hard in high school, had stellar GPA's, and face difficulties in college. A lot of times they are working very hard and not slacking off. A less than stellar GPA is not always an indication of laziness but could mask an underlying problem. Sometimes the student is working too hard and not taking time for a break. This can lead ot burnout and academic problems. </p>
<p>I think an evaluation by academic services may be in order. There could be an underlying learning disorder. This happened to the son of a friend of mine. He got services that he needed and is doing fine now at a top school (one of the Ivies).</p>
<p>I'm with the talk to the student and find out what's going on ... and support her/him as s/he adjusts and (hopefully) tries to do better. You are far from alone with a child struggling when starting school. (Rathole comment - frankly, I sometimes wonder if kids pushed themselves enough when they describe getting 4.0s from the get go having gone to match schools ... personally I see some struggle at the start of college as likely being a positive thing)</p>
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originaloog, you are the exception rather than the rule. Most kids who do poorly in science/math "weeder" classes are well-advised to find something else to study. They are called "weeder" classes for a reason.
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Far from the only one ... I went to college with terrible study habits and very immature and it took me 2 years to get my act together. Cornell gives "+"s and "-" and I got everything accept an F ... I covered the D-, D, D+, C-, C, and C+ during my first couple of years and just avoided probation a couple of times. Then got my act together my last two years (which is also was when I was in courses in my major which I was COMPELLED To work on) and did great. After that went to a top 5 grad school for an engineering masters and a top 10 B-School despite my 2.98 undergrad GPA ... in my case schools forgave my past sins when I proved the mature me was a 3.7+ student.</p>
<p>kenf1234, you may be correct that the op's daughter is up against frosh year math/science courses which can be challenging for some students not used to college level work.</p>
<p>However having been an engineering prof for more than 30 years I have seen many students who squeeked by freshman year and went on to graduate. But like I noted in my first post, the student needs to honestly assess where the problem lies. If the student is making an honest effort and still cannot manage to do passing level work, all is not lost. Tutoring may help or it may be as simple as difficulty in one subject. Some engineering majors may get D's in an intro chem, physics or nontech elective and still be a fine engineer if they choose the proper speciality.</p>
<p>The point I am making is that all students do not graduate with a 3.0+ gpa. So if the op daughter is still excited about her major and is having first semester problems in areas not directly related to that, she should not get discouraged yet. Just honesty identify the problem, get help, make necessary personal changes and plow ahead. If there is no improvement in a semester then a re-evaluation would be wise.</p>
<p>I told my D that if somehow college was harder than she expected and she pulled all C's I would be fine with that....and I was dead serious. She worked hard and got a 3.7...but I think her knowing that I would be fine, maybe not thrilled, but fine if she passed everything, had fun, learned, and was trying took off MY pressure </p>
<p>WHen I was in college, I slipped ALOT my first semester, my own fault, I felt overwhelmed and just coulnd't figure out how to catch up and kind of reached the point where it was, well, I surrender</p>
<p>The OPs D was very close to being a C student, which is fine....she passed most of her classes, and may see herself what she needs to do- ask for help, better study skills, get tutoring, etc. Not everyone is an A or even a B student in college and thats okay</p>
<p>I don't see how anyone can get below a 2.0 unless: 1) s/he is totally unprepared for college or 2) s/he slacked off for the semester.</p>