Help editing list of (mostly) LACs (or smallish universities) with strong science

College Search & Selection
1

After doing quite a bit of visiting, our kid has identified a nice bunch of LACs that feel right, along with a few larger, techier places that also appeal. Interested in the physical sciences (not engineering, though), likes a geeky/quirky vibe, small class sizes and mentorship, doesn’t care for a major Greek/jock/prep scene, and would like some opportunities to continue playing music informally. Diversity a plus. For the most part, we’re focused on the Northeast with a side of Ohio, but because a few appealing possibilities have surfaced in other areas, that’s not a hard and fast rule.

Of the ones we’ve visited, the ones still on the list are Brandeis & Clark in MA, Wesleyan in CT, Muhlenberg & Ursinus in PA, Wooster, Oberlin & Case Western in OH (the latter a bit of an outlier), and Rice (ditto). Some are matches, some are reaches. Reaction was negative to the two state school we visited (size, sports culture) and the one techy place with virtually no liberal arts. Ditto to schools that seemed too rural, too intense, or, in one case, not intense enough. The schools above all seemed to fall in the right range.

We have a list of other schools we haven’t visited but are actively considering for various reasons, but I’m hoping to tighten it up a bit, so could use some help editing down the list (or, if applicable, expanding it to include something essential we’ve missed). Arranged geographically…

Maine: Bates, Colby, Bowdoin (honestly haven’t looked deeply into these – their names just keep coming up and if anyone has any thoughts on how they compare with the “already like” list, I’m all ears).

New York: University of Rochester, Ithaca College (would also look at Cornell if we made the trip).

Vermont: University of Vermont

Pennsylvania: Carnegie Mellon

Ohio: Denison

Minnesota: Macalester, Carleton, St. Olaf

Wisconsin: Beloit, Lawrence

Oregon: Reed, Willamette

Thanks in advance for any insights. Basically looking for “Why that?” or “Why not this?” to focus the process and inform any further visiting we might (or might not) do.

2

I’d suggest Lafayette, Franklin and Marshall, Bucknell for LACs with strong science in PA and Union in NY.

3

Union I’m not familiar with so will investigate, but my impression was that the ones you listed in PA were heavier on the sports/Greek vibe. Wrong impression?

4

Just checked, and each of those schools look to have about 40% student participation in Greek life, which is a non-starter for this kid. But thank you.

5

Schools I’d add: Haverford and maybe Swarthmore (although you might find it “too intense”).

6

Check out Colorado College. Fantastic sciences!

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I’ll second Haverford, add Bryn Mawr (if your kid is female…), and add that several kids I know who really liked Oberlin and Reed also liked Grinnell so you might want to take a look at it. I believe all 3 have no Greek organizations whatsoever.

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My son wanted pretty much exactly what you describe and he is going to Wooster in the fall. He also applied to Beloit, Lawrence, and Earlham, and got in everywhere with merit $. His reach was Carleton but he ended up not applying because he had already heard from his first two choices (Wooster and Lawrence). I was totally impressed by Wooster and Lawrence, they are both really fantastic places with great vibes and smart, friendly students. Great opportunities for research and mentoring too. Lawrence has a conservatory so the music scene is super active and there are supposedly lots of ways for non music majors to participate. Appleton is a fun little city too. I know that Beloiters really love their school and do very well out in the world. My son would have been happy there too but it was third on his list. We visited Macalester, Oberlin, F&M, and Dickinson as well and he did not care to apply those schools. We would have visited St Olaf if they had a geology major.

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holy cross

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Which of the “physical sciences”? Physics, astronomy, chemistry, geology?

For physics, the undergraduate curriculum is fairly standardized, with core upper division course work in mechanics, statistical and thermal physics, quantum mechanics (often 2 semesters), electromagnetism and optics (often 2 semesters), and advanced lab work. Check to see that each school offers these courses at reasonable frequency (minimum is once every two years, but more often is more desirable, since once every two years may mean that the student gets only one chance to take each course).

For astronomy, one typically would study physics and add astronomy electives. You may want to check for an astronomy department or astronomy electives in the physics department.

For chemistry, look for American Chemical Society approval. See https://portal.acs.org/portal/acs/corg/coldfusionapp?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=mapp_cptasl_page .

For geology, consider adding the “mines” schools in South Dakota, New Mexico, and/or Colorado.

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Pomona, Harvey Mudd

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Dickinson. A really good school with some quirky vibe to it. Take the tour.

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Oh no! Nobody’s REMOVING any names! (No no … it’s all good… but if you spot any serious ringers, I’m all ears … maybe too much frat presence at Denison???)

@tk21769 Mmmmm… Swarthmore and Haverford … great schools, but reaches and currently in limbo because of the intensity factor. (I have a hunch the same might be true of Carleton and Reed).

@ebmama Very helpful. We really liked Wooster but Lawrence is new to me, so I’m reading up. Can you say what turned your son’s interest away from Oberlin and Macalester? And what pushed Beloit to the bottom of the list?

@ucbalumnus I was intentionally vague about the sciences because so much can happen with interests and tastes between now and then, but as of this moment, the first two (Physics and Astronomy) rise to the top. With a side of Computer Science, Philosophy & Psychology. (Hence the emphasis on liberal arts over purely technical schools.)

@truefalse , @mojojohnson @lr4550 Colorado, Pomona, Harvey Mudd & Dickinson have all floated around in our discussions, but I couldn’t identify a powerful reason to add another PA school that seemed to have a lot in common with the existing ones (Ursinus, Muhlenberg) or to add CO & CA, given our existing options. But I’m all ears for personal insights that would clear that up.

p.s. Single sex schools or schools with a strong religious identity aren’t going to fly with this kid.

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My daughter is looking for the same things as your child. She loved Carleton and Bryn Mawr/Haverford. I’m worried about the intensity at Carlton. She is a very intense kid who puts a lot of pressure on herself. She’s a very high achiever. I wonder if she’d be happier at a less intense campus. My friend’s daughter really liked Dickinson and did a lot of study abroad. She was a philosophy major, but I know she loved the astronomy class she took at Dickinson. I’ve heard nothing but good things about Macalester. We didn’t look at it because my daughter didn’t want to be in a city. We liked St. Olaf too. My kids are not religious but they were attracted to the amazing music program there. My younger daughter is strongly considering it. College of Wooster sounds like a great fit for your kid!

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Oh, I live near Ithaca. Ithaca College is not really the place for the sciences and also not for non-music major musicians. I would cross that one off your list. The music scene at I.C. is intense!

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He hardly needs another reach, but I would look at Williams for excellent sciences (notable Physics and Astronomy) and excellent music performance opportunities, even for non-majors. Definitely rural, but a lively, multi-talented, intellectually curious and surprisingly diverse student body. Rigorous academics, but more nurturing and collaborative than intense.

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If you are expanding your search west of Ohio, then yes, Grinnell should absolutely be on this list. Said as a parent of a Grinnellian.

18

Oberlin and Macalester are obviously very fine schools but just not right for my kid because…

Oberlin was perfect on paper but when we got there we found that it was more East Coast-ish than we expected (we’re from the DC area and he wanted a school that felt different), the opportunities for original research seemed less abundant than he wanted, it felt like you could be a vegan hippie or a suave hipster and that was about it, and the admissions staff talked incessantly about how selective they are, as if that was one of the main attractions of the school. The campus is nice but not gorgeous and the town is really, really small. He didn’t hate it but he definitely didn’t love it. It didn’t get eliminated from his list until we’d visited the MN and WI schools. For some kids, it’s perfect, just not for him.

Macalester really emphasized their international relations cred over their sciences (which I understand are stellar, they just didn’t play that up). They don’t require a senior thesis, it’s only for honors students and my son not only really wants to do one, but loves the idea that everyone has to dig really deeply into a subject. It has a defined campus but, being in the middle of St. Paul, it’s not quite as wide open as some others we visited. They also had him scheduled to visit two theater classes (which he has zero interest in and they couldn’t find a science class for him to visit.) After the tour, he didn’t even want to stay for the info session, it just wasn’t right for him. So we moved on.

Beloit has a lot to offer and they were very interested in my son, which is always a nice feeling. But, at that point in the game, he was comparing everything to Wooster and Beloit couldn’t top them in anything for him. The town felt deader than Wooster, the campus wasn’t as pretty, the senior project wasn’t as intensive, there didn’t seem to be as many clubs and activities that he was interested in, and the student body felt a little more regionally Midwestern. That said, he still applied and says he would have been happy there and I know their graduates do very well. It’s definitely on the list for my younger son. They do have a sophomore retreat of some kind that’s supposed to be really useful and they emphasized how they could make all his research aspirations happen. They even sent him a letter recently with an offer of summer research money for next year. But Wooster was his place in the universe from the moment he stepped on campus and I get that, I felt that way about my small LAC too and I really wanted that for him.

I have to say that Wooster really surprised us. It looked great on paper too and we visited the day after Oberlin so I was feeling wary of the “great on paper” school. But the campus is gorgeous with beautifully maintained historic buildings, the students are well spoken, friendly, and interested in lots of things but not boxed into types at all. I felt like he could stretch in any direction there, not feel confined to a particular path. Everyone talked about how intensive but rewarding the Independent Study (senior thesis) is. They also have an active outdoors club and lots of musical opportunities, including their bagpipers, which is claiming interest in. It ticked all his boxes. He visited again in February and came home feeling even more confident that it was the place for him. He’s very excited and I am too. I think he will do great work there. We recently attended an accepted students event locally and were impressed by the alums. It’s not at all fratty/preppy/jocky though you can find frats, preps, and jocks there if you look. That’s just not the overwhelming culture. I think some students might find it a little nerdy but my kid liked that.

Feel free to message me if you want to know anything else. I don’t want to disrespect anyone’s school and get a lot of grief for it.

19

Another vote for The College of Wooster here! There are a lot of incoming science majors this year, and there are plans for a new science building in the future. The research opportunities here are too good to pass up. I hope that your child will apply come the fall! Feel free to contact me with any questions you may have; I’d love to answer or to send you in the right direction.

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http://sites.allegheny.edu/academics/?utm_source=mainnav&utm_medium=web&utm_content=Academics&utm_campaign=HomePage2013

How about Allegheny in PA?