Help Find a College - Part 2

College Search & Selection
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For just a quick reminder, here’s her stats. Rising Senior, 98 weighted GPA (not sure how that converts exactly on 4.0 scale). Mostly honors/AP classes, Very high SAT score. Good ECs with some leadership positions, doing research this summer with a college professor.

D would like a school that’s somewhat left leaning, not a big party school/dominant greek scene and not a big sports scene. Some place with lots of non-party activities to keep her busy outside of the classroom. She almost surely wants to do a semester abroad at some point. She’d also like a very diverse student body. People from all states, lots of countries, different race/religions is something she finds attractive. Community is very important to her.

Current potential interests of study are polysci, international relations and anthropology, but that could easily change.

We expect to get very little merit aid, but $60+K/year is out of the question. Need to get the net cost somewhere into the $40s range.

At this point, I think we are done with college visits, at least until possibly visiting again to make a decision.

Here’s where we are currently at, in no particular order.

Kenyon - Great campus. Didn’t seem huge (but stats say otherwise, so a bit confused there). Buildings looked nice, facilities were good, dining hall is beautiful. D liked the student vibe there very much. Greek scene, but doesn’t seem dominant. Sports are not emphasized at all. Location is a bit remote, but seems like there’s enough stuff in Mount Vernon and can find people with cars to get to Columbus if you need to get away for a day. Because it’s so remote, it seems like they try extra hard to bring things to the campus to keep the kids busy. No real negatives here once you are ok with the location. Merit $s could be a bit tougher to find here though.

Dickinson - Very nice campus (small though), facilities nice as well. D also liked the student vibe here very much. Greek didn’t seem too dominant and sports not huge. Carlisle is a decent enough college town with some things to do off campus. Been to campus twice now. Not really sure what to expect for merit $s here.

Oberlin - Interesting campus. Not very self-contained, or I guess the town/campus are kind of one in the same. Cute enough college town with things to do. D likes the left leaning vibe and the diversity here very much. We were very underwhelmed by the facilities though. Honesty, we thought many of the buildings we saw were kind of run down. The dining hall where we all ate at was really poor and the food wasn’t good. We walked into the student union building at that was pretty bad too. Very surprised about that. One other concern here is that it seems like the non-party social life revolves around listening to friends who are in the Conservatory play concerts. I’m sure there are other activities, but everyone seemed to talk about that as a major activity. That may not be a fair assessment, but that’s just the impression we got. Also the co-op dorms (that 20% of the people live in, as we were told) seem a bit strange to me and they just looked ugly from the outside. Again, not sure what kind of merit $s to expect here.

Denison - Absolutely beautiful, huge campus. Facilities were all clearly newer and buildings were both pretty on the outside and modern on the inside. Very impressive all around. Town is very cute, things to do if you want to get off the hilltop for a bit. Columbus only 30 minutes away too. Didn’t get to see the dining hall or eat here. 70% of the student body is active in some sport (I guess that means varsity, club or intramural). That seems very high and of concern to my D. Plus, higher in-state numbers than the other schools. Greek scene is a bit strange in that the have houses, but don’t live in them. Not sure how dominant greek scene is compared to say Kenyon and Dickinson? Also, not sure how diverse the student body is and maybe be a bit preppier than Kenyon and Dickinson? Air Dension program will be great to get an overnight visit in to get a better feel of the school. Think more likely for merit $s here.

Clark - D absolutely loved the student vibe there. Would probably be a great fit with the student body. Campus was definitely not as attractive as, say Kenyon, it’s a small campus and the facilities weren’t great, but probably passable. Student Union and library not impressive at all. City seems to be a big negative as well at first glance, though the students seem to like that it’s in a city with lots of opportunities and they do get a lot out of the area. Seemed pretty run down to us though. Really like the mission of the school and the programs they had to offer. COA is lower to start with and probably in line for some decent merit aid here.

Lafayette - Have visited twice now. Beautiful campus. Buildings look great. Facilities inside are a bit old, but fine. Library is very impressive. Small, but cute down. Very easy to get to from home. Seem most committed to helping in post-graduate would. Worried about perhaps a bit preppy and little too much emphasis on sports since it’s a D1 school. Merit $s here again are very unknown.

Macalester - D seems to very much like what she’s read about it and thinks she’ll like the vibe. We talked with an alum at a college fair who gave us some good info. Definitely concerned about the distance from home and the fact that it’s an urban campus. Number of people that live off campus is a bit alarming (don’t remember the numbers off hand, but seemed high). Don’t think we’ll get a chance to visit, but will try to demonstrate interest with a local interview with traveling admissions rep or local alum and express interest in whatever other ways we can. Will probably wind up applying and see what they come up with.

St. Lawrence - Seems like it could be a good fit for D. Need to get it on the radar for her. Perhaps a bit of a sporty/outdoorsy type people that do lots of winter sports? Campus looks like it could be beautiful. Seems somewhat remote though and maybe much colder than the other schools (except Mac). Fly home from where? Pretty long, but easy drive. Need to learn more about this school. Probably in line for solid merit $s here. Will try to get a local interview and express interest in some other ways and may very well wind up applying if she gets a good feel for it.

Wheaton, MA - may give that another glance, but unlikely to get that on the radar. Very high % of females there.

Grinnell - just too far and out of the way, I think. She had a junior year history teacher that she loves who went there. He’s writing one of her recommendations as well so that might carry some extra weight there. Don’t really see applying there though.

SUNY Geneseo - State run small-ish liberal arts type school. Probably now known as the top SUNY school. Few people from our HS goes there (D likes that). Won’t visit, but can’t imagine she wouldn’t get in, would be an absolute last choice if no one gives “enough” merit aid. SUNY schools, all in, are under $25K.

Not sure if I’m posting this as helpful info for others or to get more info for us. I guess a bit of both. Would love any further thoughts on the “fit” for her as described in paragraph 2 above.

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I know someone who went to Dickinson, and he said Greek life was quite dominant. Just something to consider.

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One of my Ds attended Dickinson. While there is a frat & sports scene there, she was involved in neither and had a great experience. Graduated Phi Beta Kappa, studied off campus for two semesters (one abroad, one interning in DC), made close connections with several professors (is still in touch with some 3 years after graduating), and got a very good job after graduation through an older Dickinson student she knew. She was involved in a lot of activities, too. She got pretty good merit aid, and her stats were a little lower than your daughter’s.

Kenyon is a great school in a lot of ways (D2 was admitted there, and her best friend from high school attends). It is a pretty hard partying school, though – partly due to the remoteness, I think. But I still have a soft spot for Kenyon (beautiful campus and a lot of people who love books!). Denison has a reputation as being more heavily Greek than most of the others on your list.

We live near Mac (and D2 was also accepted there with merit aid). It may be “urban”, but it is a low crime area. The people I know who live in the neighborhood around Mac are teachers, work for banks, write for the local newspapers, are attorneys, etc. You don’t need to worry about the “urban” nature from that aspect. I like Mac a lot. It is diverse and has no Greek life.

Has your D visited Mount Holyoke? If not, you should get her to just go check it out. Yes, I see your comment about the ratio at Wheaton, but we have a LOT of students (and parents) out here who aren’t too attracted to single sex colleges who visit and come away raving. Both my Ds weren’t too sure about it, visited, and ended up applying. My higher stats kid got great merit aid there. It has a diverse, strong community, lovely campus, and is part of a consortium of 5 colleges so they can socialize or take a few classes at the other colleges. To me it feels like it would be a very strong fit (if you can just get her to visit…).

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Your list doesn’t really match your financial restraints. I think your daughter should consider adding more safeties. SUNY Purchase is very artsy. If she wants to avoid sports, I think Lafayette is fine. The option is there if you wanna have a lot of school spirit at a school, but it’s also a LAC, so you can easily avoid it. I would also encourage her to look at Muhlenberg, CMU, Connecticut College, Bennington, and Union College.

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All women school isn’t going to get on radar. She’s a bit concerned about the diversity at St. Lawrence as it’s about 40% in state (in state numbers at Denison are a bit high too). Visited Muhlenberg and didn’t like it (too artsy). CMU is way too large. Connecticut College doesn’t give any merit aid whatsoever according to the CDS. She didn’t like what she read about Union (too much engineering?), Bennington is way too small. No need to add any other state schools, I don’t think, as Geneseo is a liberal arts type college and is a pretty good quality school. Tried to get U of Rochester added too, but that’s not happening.

I would like to expand the list some still to make sure we have a safety financially, but it’s tough getting her to really like something as she’s got very particular ideas in mind. I think between the schools listed in my OP, we’ll find reasonable merit at at least a couple, but it’s going to be stressful watching the acceptances, rejections and financial aid offers come in.

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I suggested adding more safeties for financial reasons. Not academic ones. Of the 11 schools you listed, they are all out of your budget. In case merit aid doesn’t go your way, it’s worth it too add more state schools or safeties that would in fact be affordable. So with your budget, she needs more state schools or schools with guaranteed aid. The last thing you want is for her to be left with one option. SUNY Purchase may be too artsy if Muhlenberg is too artsy. So what about New Paltz as another safety? Though it is an academic safety, it seems to have the environment she is looking for at a good price. If you’re budget is $40K, that means that you need upwards of $20K in merit aid from multiple schools which is unlikely for a weighted 98 GPA with good ECs so she needs more financial options. If she doesn’t want it to be too artsy or too sporty, what about Lehigh, Franklin and Marshall, and Ursinus? She also seems to have really really specfic tastes and that may be hurting her search. Small schools tend to be artsy.

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@CaliCash thanks for your posts. Not sure why you suggest we need more state schools. Geneseo is roughly the category of school she’s looking (at least best match for SUNY) and no doubt she’ll get in there. I’m sure we’ll check off some other boxes on the state application as well.

As for Muhlenberg, I really meant too many theater majors, not really too “artsy”. Muhlenberg has a rather high percentage of theater majors. Lehigh is a bit larger and she didn’t like it (we did a self-tour). Kind of known as a huge party school too. F&M we did visit and she didn’t like (very preppy). Ursinus is still on the edge of the radar.

Her ECs are very strong, with several leadership positions and awards and she did get a 2300 on the SAT. Think she’s got a solid shot at merit dollars at these schools (won’t necessarily get at most, but think likely will get at least at 1 of the higher level ones and very likely at some of the next tier ones). I’d be a bit surprised if Denison and Clark both didn’t come in with a nice package. She had an exceptional interview at Denison as well. Yes, getting no merit anywhere she thinks she’d be happy is somewhat of a worry.

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@CaliCAsh, SUNY Purchase would be a poor choice for someone interested in “polysci, international relations and anthropology”, or any subject other than the arts.

OP, Muhlenberg has at least as many pre-med hopefuls as theater types–a bit schizoid in that regard. The theater types are just naturally more visible and out there.

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“She’s a bit concerned about the diversity at St. Lawrence as it’s about 40% in-state”

That is a fact about St. Lawrence, but I wonder if the implications of this figure in terms of geographic diversity are different for a school that is not near a major metropolitan area. Of its New York State students, I’d think SLU gets a fair amount from upstate cities such as Albany and Rochester, a few from the Adirondacks, and another fair amount from the New York City region (which itself can be fairly diverse). In addition to the geographic diversity that the OOS students bring to the school, St. Lawrence may have an uncommon in-state diversity that can’t be measured by a single number.

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@merc81 yes, I’m sure, because of where St. Lawrence is and the type of school, the in state numbers are a bit misleading. There probably won’t be many kids from our area, which is really what she’s trying to avoid.

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I hope you don’t choose a school based on a meal at the cafeteria. Perhaps you should add in other out of state state schools that fit your profile / budget. And if you are looking for merit aid - focus on schools where you will improve their profile (top 10% applicant pool).

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@ClarinetDad16 If I’m paying 60k plus per year, I don’t think it’s outrageous to expect decent facilities and a good quality of life (of which food is a major part!).

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We have visited and researched a number of the schools on your list. With your daughter’s stats, I would think you would get nice sized merit at Denison, Dickinson, St L and – though I’m not as familiar with Clark – Clark too. Kenyon, Oberlin and Grinnell do give merit aid, but it is more selective so hard to predict.

Grinnell really is worth a visit – no Greek life, more open curriculum, gorgeous facilities, lots of money for internships, research etc. A blend of crunchy, sporty, etc kids.

Denison has been working very hard to diversify and shed its preppy stereotype. We were actually struck by how diverse the student body is, more visibly so than Kenyon and Oberlin. Greek life is non-residential, similar to Kenyon, and is actually about the same percentage participation – 30% at both Kenyon and Denison. Denison administration, like St L, seems to be working hard to communicate how supportive a structure there is for career development.

I think sorority participation is higher at both Dickinson and St L than fraternity participation is – more sororities on campus than fraternities so that could skew the experience – I have a son looking, so we didn’t listen when they were talking about sorority participation. We know students from both schools who had wonderful, rich experiences entirely separate from Greek life and didn’t experience it as a dominant structure of social life.

Kenyon, Denison, Dickinson all have second semester rush, so students have some time to acclimate to campus before considering whether to participate in Greek life. St L has sophomore year rush, so that students go through the entire first year program without the distraction of Greek life.

My rising senior spent some time at St L, and described that many students are from east coast, but also growing California and international population. The school is working hard, like Denison, to shed its more narrow reputation. My kid loved the idea of the semester in NYC offered by St L. He is not a big winter sports kid, but he was impressed by the school. St L organizes shuttle buses for students get to Syracuse, Boston, NYC etc. for breaks. Depending on where you are located, a shuttle bus might get her close to home (I remember one route goes through Westchester and to NYC).

I have visited Oberlin a lot, with 2 kids who have visited, done overnights etc. You either love it or don’t. Mine don’t, and nothing I could say or do would change that. Strong academics, just a very distinct campus feel that either feels like home or doesn’t.

Sounds like a well-rounded list, with lots of good opportunities. Worth a non-binding EA app to Dickinson, as well as an early app to Geneseo to get an early acceptance in the hand.

Good luck to your daughter!

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So you can select a school based on food and dorms and then get assigned a dorm that they don’t show on the tour. A less desirable dorm - then what? Do you rescind your acceptance and attend a different school?

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@ClarinetDad16 as for us, no, my D isn’t choosing a school based on the cafeteria or the food. We did get a general impression (whether it’s accurate or not, I don’t know) that the facilities at Oberlin are not as nice as some of the other schools we looked at. Especially when paying so much, I think it’s certainly reasonable to base some of the decision on the quality of the overall facilities.

@Midwestmomofboys thanks for your post. Do you really think Dickinson falls in the Merit category with Denison, St. L and Clark? I think we’d expect solid merit aid from those 3, but I think Dickinson is going to fall closer to Kenyon, Oberlin and Lafayette, much more up in the air. Dickinson lists only $4M in their CDS merit aid data.

@CaliCash just to clear up one thing for future reference in this thread. Franklin & Marshall gives no merit aid at all.

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My kid also was not taken with Oberlin, partly due to very rude treatment by a Con professor when she went to a room as directed by admissions to sit in on a class, but the class she was supposed to be in had been moved (and she was not late, either). I was outside the classroom door just waiting to make sure she was settled before heading off for a coffee, and this prof was a b**** to her. There were other turnoffs for her – I agree that it is a great school for some students, but not for everyone. If the OP’s D wasn’t taken with it, there are other fish in the sea. Don’t waste the application time if the fit isn’t there, that is why you go visit.

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My Daughter didn’t dislike the visit to Oberlin at all. She could very well be a fit with the culture there and might yet do a post-acceptance overnight visit if the aid package comes out good. The main issue that we all had was that the facilities were not that nice. We didn’t like the dining hall we ate in, the dorm we saw and the student union building that we wandered into. The buildings seemed by 60s style and not as well kept as other schools. It’s just 1 factor in the overall decision. Oberlin certainly isn’t off the list because of it though.

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@lexluthor5 – From our conversations with admissions, the highest merit aid award at Dickinson is $24,000 (though maybe I am mis-remembering and it is $20k) and is based on high stats plus contribution to campus. Your daughter’s stats sound like they would fall in the highest range, so the task would be demonstrating campus contribution through her ECs etc. An EA application, plus some strong demonstrated interest this fall, with campus visit etc, and meaningful emails with her admissions rep, could help.

St L is a school we have struggled with but now it is high on my son’s list. We visited in April over our spring break, visit just didn’t go smoothly, in part because it was the last on our list and we were all ready to head home. We saw only negatives then. On my son’s recent visit, I got a much better sense of how campus is laid out and found it quite lovely, with clusters of buildings rather than a formal quad. The new buildings are gorgeous, including Science, Student Center and Kirk Douglas dorm. Some of the mid-century brick buildings look somewhat faded, but then the dining hall and some older academic buildings are lovely, traditional buildings. The athletic facilities are gorgeous, and the fields are clustered on one side of campus. So, campus is self-contained, like Denison, but doesn’t have the hills that Denison does. The town itself has its charms, it is 2 blocks from campus, with a nice first run movie theater right there, a flourishing farmers’ market, some good cafes and restaurants. My son really liked the students he met, and found the freshman dorm they stayed in perfectly fine – while somewhat dated, his double room was quite large, with lots of storage and big windows. Very comfortable compared to some freshman dorms he has seen. Everyone we met talked about the strong sense of community among the students. So, I was glad we made the effort to return, as my son really liked it.

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@Midwestmomofboys I really don’t know what we are going to do about StL. It really seems like it should be on her list, but I can’t get her give it a further look. I can’t see having an opportunity to get up there though unless she really becomes enthused. How much does not visiting, but showing interest in as many other ways as we can affect the potential of merit aid?

Dickinson will definitely get an EA. $20K-$24K would certainly be in line with what it would take. We’ve already been to campus twice and also met with the admissions director for our region at a college fair. Plus, some follow-up and future emails (though he doesn’t ever seem to reply and said he may not have received emails). Not sure we’ll get a fall visit in, more likely a visit post acceptance, if they offer merit aid. At least with EA at Dickinson and Clark, we can get some possible post acceptance visits in a little earlier so that April doesn’t become insane. Do you think Dickinson would be looking for her to do a fall visit too? Both visits we had were over the summer session (didn’t have an interview the first time and we were back around the area a few weeks later, so went back there for the interview).

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Mainly true on F&M http://www.fandm.edu/admission/special-opportunities