Yesterday we had an interesting conversation, borne out of me gently pushing to look for alternatives if the Oxford plan does not pan out, of which there is a significant probability. My son threw a gap year into the conversation, in which he would get better at math and then apply again to Oxford.
I am actually not opposed to a gap year, as he is very young, he has kids that are two years older than him in class (he had to go frigging young due to the German state laws at the time he started school). But, is it even possible to reapply to Oxford if you didnât get accepted the first time around? I thought Iâd ask you wise people, I bet someone here knowsâŠ
At the moment I just want to collect possibilities so that we know what options there might be.
And, one more question: he started a list of all of his activities in hs. How would he define what he is doing at the moment, self studying for AP exams? Is that EC, hobby, ???
And, thinking of applications to US schools: anybody have an idea how he would describe it? âSelf studied and took 3 AP exams because⊠I wanted to see if I could do it? I wanted to apply to a school that is NOT YOU? I wanted to give myself the option to study in Europe if I donât get into your school?â
Yes it is. But Oxford would prefer you to study more math in the interim, ideally at a college level. That means a gap year is not a great idea, it is better to go to college and apply from there (youâd restart from scratch at Oxford). Alternatively, to enhance your qualifications you could do STEP at the end of senior year if you are confident in getting a good grade.
There was a parent a few years ago whose S got into UCL but decided to postpone and study in the US (I believe at UCSB) for a year first. Because of a paperwork screw up he was forced to reapply instead of getting the deferral from UCL and happily got into Oxford instead the second time around.
Ah, thank you @Twoin. This is interesting. Hm - ⊠he would definitely want to do more math, however, not nearly as interested in doing the general ed requirements at i.e. UCSB. (One of the big appeals of Oxford is not having to deal with those).
What do you think of online math courses, i.e. Johns Hopkins?
PS: thank you for all of your advice - I am glad we thought to ask all of this now, so we still have some time to adjust plansâŠ
Although most people do GenEd in the first year, thereâs no specific requirement to do so. You can take the math courses first if you want to. But you are taking a risk going down this path, if you canât get into a UK school that you actually want to attend, and then you are stuck with a US choice that you havenât fully committed to.
Just a heads up that the College of Creative studies at UCSB says they have âsimplified and more flexible general education requirementsâ. And they do include mathematics as one of their 8 majors.
Yes - they are not far from us, and Iâve been bugging my son to take another look. I actually feel it might be good on his list of schools to apply to. One not so great AO shouldnât deter himâŠ
But you are taking a risk going down this path, if you canât get into a UK school that you actually want to attend, and then you are stuck with a US choice that you havenât fully committed to
Exactly. However - so much can change in a year, I definitely think it is worth thinking about. And, as mentioned to MMRose - I personally think the college of creative studies sounds like an option for him.
Completely agree. I am kicking his little b** (very gently) to reach out to the math department directly - maybe he can just sit in on a lecture, or theyâll answer some of his questions.
As you say - first apply, then you can decide later.
There are plenty of re-applicants at Oxford. Posts over on The Student Room tell all kinds of different stories and approaches on what people do with the âextraâ year. Spend some time there and see what has worked and what hasnât. Time preparing for the MAT is always time well spent.
Nothing new to report, I am just posting to check in and say âhiâ (and to keep the thread open).
We had a CCD (college chaos day) and discussed all possible outcomes, ideas, possibilities.
It was fun. Then we basically threw all suggestions from this thread and a few other sources on to a spreadsheet - voilĂ , first college list. Albeit with 21 schools.
Even though junior knows heâll need to whittle it down I can tell that at least having something resembling a list has a calming effect on him. Hooray - an outlook and a place to startâŠ
Also discussed plan B, which is a gap year. Knowing that he has options even if he doesnât get into any college gasp also put a smile on his face.
And then he asked me how many schools I applied to. When I replied âoneâ, he was sooo jealous. Somehow this process is bonkers.
Thank you so much @Beekmom, we signed up for it. How is it going with you? Decisions are coming up, are you and Beekmomson stressed? I canât even imagineâŠ
Here preparations are rolling along and kiddo is enjoying himself immensely. He is currently trying to teach himself how to write a proof and loves the âpoetic sideâ of it. I imagine that it must feel a bit like being amazed at how one can put language together?
We had an interesting discussion yesterday and I was wondering of any of the knowledgeable math people here have an opinion. So, as stated, kiddoâs primary interests in going to college is a) finding his tribe of people who also like the âpoetic sideâ of math and b) learn more math.
Yesterday we were discussing safety schools and how identifying them is actually more difficult, mostly because every school basically offers a math program so it is hard to sift out the ones that would be a good fit. Taking priority a, finding your clan, we both were wondering: isnât the fact that someone chooses to major in math at any given school already an indicator that â here is your peeps? So, basically: how big are the differences in student population in math majors at any school given that probably nobody would choose to go for math if they arenât into it? Kiddo only has limited exposure through the math he took at our community college, and seeing that calculus is a prerequisite for many other majors he didnât feel that it attracted only âmath peopleâ - but how does that pan out at 4 year colleges?
hi AnnaW, These are great questions. I think one key to finding âsafety schoolsâ that are attracting other poetic mathematicians is to look for the schools that have great reputations for engaged and supportive math faculty, more-than-the-average-number of proof-based classes, and honors sections. We spoke with a math professor in the UC system and came up with Minnesota, Utah, and Wisconsin. I think Maryland also came up, and Rutgers too? (There are many other great public state schools for math, but theyâre not safeties (Michigan, UT Austin, many UCâs, etc.) ) Hope that helps!
I am not a mathematician. With that caveat, I would assume that people who enjoy the âpoeticsâ of math would be more likely to do graduate study in math . Thus, I did a quick search of schools that produce the most math PhDs.
This list has the total # of PhDs in math on the left, and then on the right it has a list with the number of PhDs adjusted by the size of the undergraduate enrollment. (My link should go straight to math, but the preview is showing all programs.)
This list has a few names that are different from the above one (though mostly the same). Obviously, Iâd look into the methodologies for both, but I think that the lists of schools would be a good starting place to find the ârightâ kind of math kids.
As I said before (and before), Iâm not a math person. But if the Mathematics & Philosophy program at Oxford excites your son, here are a few other North American options that are looking to incorporate those fields (links lead to program descriptions):
Differences in ability may be bigger and more noticeable than differences in personality. The classic âmath nerdâ personality type is very common, but even at a very good school you see a big range of ability: the difference between top 0.1% and 1% is as obvious as the difference between top 1% and 10%. Average GPAs for math majors are often amongst the lowest at many colleges. So even though some switch to an easier major, there are many who persist and struggle. Iâd also note that many large publics have separate regular and honors classes for popular math classes, in order to accommodate this range of ability.
Wow - thank you AustenNut! These are super helpful lists! How do you want information like that?
I am happy to see that there is an overlap between kiddos very tentative first list (waaaaay long) and these. Seems as if we are at least somewhere in the proximity of the right track.
I am truly super grateful, you are saving me so much headache posting these (and I hope you didnât get any headache finding them?)
Thank you @Beekmom - advised by a great person here we put Utah and Wisconsin on the list. Thank you so much, we never would have known.
BlockquoteI think one key to finding âsafety schoolsâ that are attracting other poetic mathematicians is to look for the schools that have great reputations for engaged and supportive math faculty, more-than-the-average-number of proof-based classes, and honors sections.
Uh - does that mean that not all math classes after linear algebra are proof based?
Rereading this I realize I sound slightly ignorant. However, my interest in knowing the answer is stronger than my interest in sounding knowledgeable (but only by a fractionâŠ)
is to look for the schools that have great reputations for engaged and supportive math faculty, more-than-the-average-number of proof-based classes, and honors sections. We spoke with a math professor in the UC system and came up with Minnesota, Utah, and Wisconsin. I think Maryland also came up, and Rutgers too? (There are many other great public state schools for math, but theyâre not safeties (Michigan, UT Austin, many UCâs, etc.) ) Hope that helps!
With that caveat, I would assume that people who enjoy the âpoeticsâ of math would be more likely to do graduate study in math . Thus, I did a quick search of schools that produce the most math PhDs.
we put Utah and Wisconsin on the list. Thank you so much, we never would have known.
is to look for the schools that have great reputations for engaged and supportive math faculty, more-than-the-average-number of proof-based classes, and honors sections.