Help finish Junior/Senior schedule for high school student interested in mechanical engineering

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My kid is in grade 10, is enrolled in an “alternative” public school, and has been trying to balance advanced instruction in a sport along with accelerated academics over the past few years. There are four semesters left after my student’s current Spring 2022 term.

While the public school is flexible, AP course offerings have slowly diminished. First, my student’s particular foreign language was dropped from the schedule entirely. Now, AP Chemistry and AP Physics will be dropped starting next year (staffing/budget issues), just when my student was due to take both courses.

So, my student is looking at earning an Associates Degree for Transfer in Mathematics, to be completed at the same time as graduating high school. Due to not great counseling advice, this may or may not be possible. My student is trying to find a counselor at the college to help finish out the associate’s degree course list (earning the 60 credits is doable due to previous course work, but fitting in all the pre-requisite classes will be cutting it close).

By the end of Grade 10/sophomore year, the following will have (hopefully) been completed:

-World History/Geography (2 hs semesters); Intro to PolySci 101; American Politics 102 (cc)

-English 3, English 4 (Grade 10 English)

-Calculus 1, Calculus 2, Linear Algebra, Discrete Mathematics (four cc math courses)

-Physics1, Physics 2 (hs)

-Honors Chemistry 1, Honors Chemistry 2 (hs)

-Advanced Biology 1, Advanced Biology 2 (hs)

-Spanish 7, Spanish 8, AP Spanish (year 5, all high school courses)

30 college units/credits will (hopefully) have been earned in nine courses (four math, two political science, one fine art, one Engineering drawing elective, one Python programming course)

College courses selected mostly fit two funnels: the high school district’s partnership with the community college district, and the associate degree general education and district requirements.

My student will not be on campus at the college to attend. All courses will be online/remote.

Some questions:

-Because all associate’s degree work will be remote, this limits chemistry and physics courses to almost nothing. How bad is that for a prospective mechanical engineering student?

-There are two courses in Exercise Science required (ie. some type of physical activity). Given that some school is currently remote and my kid is pursuing athletics independently, are waivers/exceptions common?

-My kid plans to have seven semesters of college math courses completed. Is it okay for S2 senior year to have a computer science course instead (still part of the math courses required for the associate’s degree)? There aren’t any other really appropriate math courses.

-Due to having a math and english course each upcoming semester, there is only room for one more course per term (three classes at three credits each, under the 11 credit limit per semester for high school students). Is it okay to alternate history and science courses?

Thanks for helping navigate a schedule that is upended every single year, it seems!

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I can’t answer everything, but I’ll tackle the few that I can.

Physics and Chemistry will be what they will be. It’s not bad per se, as it’s the best his school will offer, but I wouldn’t have him plan on testing out of anything. Most ME students start in Physics I and Chem, so he won’t be behind.

He’ll have plenty of math. Props to him. I’d have him take the CS course if that’s what he wants. As for non-science courses, he should take classes he’s interested in. He’ll be fine.

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Thanks, @eyemgh. Always appreciate your posts. Kid is a she, not that it should make any difference.

The Associate’s Degree course options currently available in the Natural Sciences category are an Astronomy, Geography and Physical Science 3-course grouping. (There is a separate option of Anthropology, Biology and Psychology - a student has to pick either grouping A or grouping B, can’t mix the three courses picked from A and B columns.) Chances are the first option would be picked. Looks like the Physical Science course will have a bit of Chemistry/Physics in it. Have to check.

Wondering what are common chemistry/physics out-of-school courses that could supplement.

Also, trying to brainstorm practical physics experience options.

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Minimum preparation for ME would be high school chemistry and physics along with precalculus, plus the usual college prep curriculum (English, social studies, etc.). Obviously, the student is well beyond that in math (multivariable calculus and differential equations would be other college math to consider that may be applicable).

In college, an ME student would typically take general chemistry and calculus-based physics for engineering majors. If the chemistry and physics offerings while still in high school are unsuitable, then other potentially applicable courses besides math would include:

  • English composition.
  • Humanities and social studies, although general education requirements do vary widely.
  • Computing for engineering (typically using MATLAB).
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Oops! Sorry! I try to pay attention to pronouns and thought I caught that. My mistake! :grimacing:

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No apologies necessary! I try to give minimum info on this site for the kid’s basic privacy, but it’s not always possible. No harm, no foul in the least and all good things…

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Thanks, @ucbalumnus, always appreciate your posts as well. How could we know whether a course uses MATLAB if it’s not in the catalog description? Email the community college prof? Or is there a good course high school students take outside of school that does feature computing for engineering with MATLAB?

I ask because the parent of one female student mentioned that she didn’t have programming experience before attending her engineering program, and was behind other students, because she had to learn programming on the fly while taking courses that assumed programming experience. Sounds awful to me and this is a situation that I want my kid to not be in. Engineering courses are hard enough without missing an essential experience needed to suceed.

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MATLAB is a very useful engineering calculator. It wouldn’t be where I’d start though. I’d have her do a free online Python course like CodeAcademy. It will teach the basics of if/then architecture that most languages use. From there it’s an easy jump into other stuff like C, C+, MATLAB, etc.

I wouldn’t stress it too much though. She’ll be exposed to what she needs to learn. Spending a bunch of time learning to code is sort of like learning a foreign language. She won’t know if she needs it until she needs it. Have her get the gist with something, and then call it good.

If she wants to do it in context of something she could use Python with Raspberry Pi, or choose C++ instead and program an Arduino.

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Agree with @eyemgh that learning computing and programming is still useful, even if in some other programming language.

The courses using MATLAB are typically the ones most likely to be accepted for transfer subject credit in ME majors.

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Ah, that is very helpful to know. Almost all the courses being taken are listed as being UC-transferrable, except for the Engineering Drawing course last semester and the Python Programming course this semester. Much time was spent ensuring that upcoming courses all fit the associate degree general education and district requirements and are UC-transferrable.

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Update: student successfully completed a 4-credit Python Programming class in the spring semester, and a 2-credit Engineering Drawing class that was very labor-intensive for the credit units given!

No AP Physics in the schedule - not offered at student’s school. Can’t take the community college Physics course due to not being able to be on campus for labs (conflicts with sports schedule).

What could be ways to self-study (with a course, or a tutor) Physics so that my student could take the AP Physics 1 or AP Physics 2 test in May? (Student completed Physics 1/2 Honors at school a few years ago.) What is the difference between the 2? The second one more advanced and covers AP material?

Same self-study (course, tutor, etc.) question for the AP Computer Science A and AP Computer Science Principles tests.

Thanks!

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AP physics 1 and 2 cover different topics in physics.

However, these AP tests will not give useful subject credit for an engineering major. Engineering majors need to take calculus-based physics, so non-calculus AP physics 1 and 2 will not be accepted for subject credit for engineering majors’ physics courses.

For a mechanical engineering major, AP CS credit is unlikely to give useful subject credit. If the student wants to learn about CS for learning sake, that is fine (https://cs10.org may be a good way to get an introduction and overview of CS; it is a college course that AP CS principles is modeled on), but possible AP credit should be of low priority.

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I agree 100%.

The best prep for engineering is math, at the highest level one can obtain, while still displaying mastery, Physics C, and Chemistry (it helps in materials).

This is n=1, so take it with a grain of salt. California has multiple engineering magnate schools. My son went to school with quite a few of their grads. They had a small advantage first year in the tinkering classes (joining of materials, separating of materials, additive manufacturing, etc.), because they had been exposed to the equipment. When it came to the heavy lifting though, they had no advantage. In fact, he graduated earlier and with a much higher GPA than all of his friends who had those derivative classes.

Go deep in the classics. Don’t worry about the other stuff.

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Your son went to CalPoly and had an amazing experience, if I remember correctly? Really appreciate your posts as they have been such an interesting take for me. I have absolutely no guidance IRL, (in fact it’s almost been “anti-guidance” which shouldn’t really happen, but does all the time;) just been doing the best that I can on my own.

I’ve been off cc for a few months, but am dipping back in as more expertise is needed each time course selection happens.

It looks like for a variety of reasons, kid won’t have much tinkering experience from school courses beyond the intro bio, chem and physics courses previously taken on campus. Trying to brainstorm other ways the kid can tinker. Don’t think baking and sewing, although hand work with tools, counts in this instance!

The next two years are a continuation of combining college and high school courses. The high school dropped AP Physics and AP Chem this year. The dual-enrollment associate math degree (if all the credits can be fit in) is meant to compensate for this issue, demonstrate rigor in a course load, and also is in line with the student’s course interests (likes math) and college interest (mechanical engineering). (Don’t know what this would look like to admin officers, just trying to do right by the student.)

Junior year is tentatively this (not done registering):

Semester One

-Math Calculus with Analytic Geometry 3 (community college dual enrollment)
-English 101 Reading & Composition (cc de)
-Physical Geography 101 (cc de)
-AP Art History (high school)
-Food/Nutrition (hs)
-Physical Education (hs)
-Course TBD (high school didn’t have all teachers sorted out last spring for this year)

Semester Two

-Math, Discrete Math (cc de)
-English 105 (cc de)
-Physical Sciences 100 (cc de)
-AP Art History (high school)
-Food/Nutrition (hs)
-Physical Education (hs)
-Course TBD (high school didn’t have all teachers sorted out last spring for this year)

One one hand, the student has generally enough advanced courses done that, except for English and APUSH, everything is already graduation-level ready. Don’t want the kid to graduate early. Already skipped a grade when younger, so the next two years of school are fine (allows for natural teenage maturation while still trying to pursue the sport).

Here is the big issue: my kid needs four courses to be enrolled at the high school. But, due to sports training, is not on campus enough and needs “remote” courses that meet less frequently. So the high school courses selected aren’t great. Feels like the college courses are fine, standard, meat and potatoes, and the high school ones are oddly bird-like and wonky.

THIS is why AP testing will be important for the student this junior year.

Many of my kid’s cc de courses can be recognized at the UCs - if need be. The associate’s degree courses taken/to be taken almost all have been selected for this. (Interestingly enough, only the Engineering Drawing and Python Programming courses are not UC-recognized. My kid took them because A) seemed like practical knowledge to have, in their general area of interest; B) shows interest in Engineering - ie. kid can’t apply to Mech Eng at an Engineering school with only arts and language courses.)

I remember one mom of a Purdue student, I think, mention that her daughter wished she had done more of the GE requirements in high school to free up her schedule for more engineery/tecchie courses in college. Thought this was an interesting perspective; knowing my kid, might be how they feel as well. So, in terms of English, Foreign Language, Humanities (Art History courses) and Social/Behavioral (History, PolySci basic intro courses), it’s better for my kid to knock as many of these out in high school. Four years of college would be for a deeper math/tech dive, or a combined bachelor/masters, if possible.

Our guidance counsellor said that taking AP courses are one thing, but it’s the AP Test Score that counts on a transcript.

So if my kid has a weird schedule this year, any AP Physics and AP Computer Science tests taken would be to demonstrate subject mastery, since the high school course load on paper this year doesn’t represent course rigor. The AP testing in these two subjects would serve to be better prepared for the math/science course load in college - not as courses to test out of at college. (Interesting advice about AP Chem; really seems that this course content should be taken one way or another in the next two years.)

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Physical Sciences 100 title seems like a non-majors’ science course that will not be accepted for subject credit for engineering majors. It may be better to choose a humanities or social studies course of interest. For science courses applicable to mechanical engineering, calculus-based physics or general chemistry are more likely to give transferable subject credit. Has the student had at least high school physics and chemistry (not necessarily AP level)?

You may want to check on https://www.assist.org to make sure that English 101 and 105 are applicable to UC and CSU English composition requirements.

For math beyond single variable calculus (calculus 1 and 2), the courses most applicable to mechanical engineering are multivariable calculus (calculus 3), linear algebra, and differential equations. Discrete math is more applicable to computer science majors and as practice with math proofs for math majors, though it can certainly be taken as an elective for students interested in it.

If the student plays a sport, is regular physical education required?

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I think you’re over thinking this. The majority of students don’t have access to things like programming, drafting, and robotics. Your student’s achievements in math, physics and chemistry are fine.

My son’s tinkering experience was legos. It has NO impact on a college application, but showed us at a young age that he had a curious, problem solving mind. He was also on the math team. That was his only STEM EC. Now he does high level mathy stuff, but can also mill, 3D print, solder, design and build circuit boards…I could go on. The point is, he learned those things in college.

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Discrete is useful in some EE applications (which ones…don’t ask me :rofl:). I know my son had to self learn it for some circuits stuff he was working on. It might be useful for a a ME with a mechatronics concentration.

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Thank you for replying, @ucbalumnus. Appreciate your knowledge of the CA system!

Physics 1/2, Chemistry Honors 1/2, Advanced Biology 1/2 are already done. As are Math 150/151 (Calculus), Linear Algebra and Discrete Mathematics. (I made an error; it’s Math Calculus with Analytic Geometry III and Differential Equations that will be covered the next two semesters during junior year.)

If I read the assist link correctly, it appears that Eng 101, 105 and 205 are applicable (says UC-E). The history/polysci courses all note UC-B. The math UC-M. PHYN 100, ASTR 101, GEO 101 all note UC-S.

For the associate’s degree, there is a required Nutrition 150 GE course, but that does not seem to have a UC transferrable code, neither does the HEALTH ED 101 course taken this summer.

Basically, four high school courses are required to be enrolled; the sports schedule means my kid can’t often be on campus (independent study school, so each class is once weekly).

Except for English and APUSH, my kid is done the school course offerings in math, science (except AP Bio, which kid is less interested in than AP Physics and AP Chemistry) and Foreign Language (did the AP Spanish test in May).

So we are looking at four courses where the kid can be enrolled but attend in a more specialized manner. Gym classes at this school are self-reported since they don’t have organized gym classes; you simply provide a monthly accounting of your sports schedule. Several athletes attend this school precisely for the looser class schedule and credit for their sports play. (New changes in health mandates this school year, however, are probably going to impact this.)

So, my kid’s sport’s time is recognized and credited as one course, and they don’t have to be on campus for it.

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Good to know the course should help. My major was, let’s say, not math, so figuring out an interesting and rigorous math/eng schedule for my unconventional kid has been a slog.

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There’s quite a bit of math that my son doesn’t currently use, but that he enjoyed. Numerical Methods and Topology are great examples. Maths are tools that can be pulled out of the armamentarium or even learned on the fly, when they’re needed. He can’t have too much.

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