Help for a distance runner

Athletic Recruits
1

<p>S2 is a talented distance runner (S1 is the flute player, hence my name "flutetalk"). Looking for any advice as he moves toward college in the next few years. He was varsity as a frosh at a 6A school, district frosh champ by a wide margins in x-country, 1500 and javelin, 2nd in 3000 to another gifted athelete, etc. He adores running and I don't want him to burn out or be injured (he has already had significant leg injuries in other sports that he has given up). S2 also is an honors student who gets excellent grades, plays an instrument, and does volunteer work, has summer job, etc. Currently his long term career interests are in the field of business.</p>

<p>I heard there were stats available on this site on what kind of times college coaches would be looking for in recruits. Can anyone direct me to these? I have found some general texts on recruitment of athletes (via this website and the library). He will go to a high altitude running training camp this summer which I think he will love, for physical development and team building. Last summer he attended a respected college T&Fcamp, also got to see some of the Olympic trials featuring his heros. I have considered involvement in Junior Olympics (he did this when younger) but have seen talented kids his age group burn out/get injured doing this much running, so that they are "washed up" by the time they get to their senior year.</p>

<p>I am considering (later?) hiring a private distance coach who is highly recommended and is currently working with a distance runner who is nationally ranked. Any advice on how to deal with the regular high school coach on this (he has a fantastic relationship with his hs coach and I don't want to do anything to undermine this). In the past when I asked about hiring a private coach I got some resistance from others on the hs coaching staff in the form of "we have all that atheletes need in coaching right here at the hs".</p>

<p>Other things he needs to be aware of as he goes through all of this? He is religious about warm ups, cool downs, etc. already, in part due to his previous injuries. He doesn't have a particluar college in mind yet or know anything about D1, D2, etc. except that he likely would pick one of the coasts or the upper midwest in terms of geography and a school where he could get a good LA education before perhaps business school.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance for any tips from you seasoned x-county, T&F veterans/parents.</p>

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<p>Take a look at this site:</p>

<p>[Men’s</a> Track Recruiting Guidelines](<a href=“http://www.ncsasports.org/recruiting-tools/track/mens-track-recruiting-guidelines]Men’s”>http://www.ncsasports.org/recruiting-tools/track/mens-track-recruiting-guidelines)</p>

<p>best of luck.</p>

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<p>Thanks so much for the statistics about athletes times, etc for various divisions. That is exactly what I was looking for. </p>

<p>There seems to be a lot of hype about needing to have recruiting videos, etc. (seem to want to make money off you?). Have people found it helpful to “pay” someone to help “package” their child (who is a runner) for recruiters? There may be previous threads on this topic to which I can be referred.</p>

<p>Also, I believe the site I said “1%” of atheletes are offered a full ride. Any sites that detail the kind of scholarships offered to top atheletes (the other 99%) by various schools? or even a list of schools that have athletic scholarships for runners? My S1 who auditioned for music scholarships knew that these are generally between 1-10K per year, which was helpful to know ahead of time in planning financing his education.</p>

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<p>My son (a rising HS senior) and I talked to the coaches at Texas. They said that generally most kidson scholarship are “on books,” meaning that their textbooks are paid for. They said that’s about $1500 a year. There just aren’t very many scholarships allotted at each school, and those go to INCREDIBLY gifted runners, a lot of times from countries like Kenya.</p>

<p>My main advice is for your son to run a lot and have fun. He won’t get rich running, but he’ll learn discipline and perseverance. He’ll probably also get to go to some fun meets all over the country!</p>

<p>Oh, yes, and grades are still VERY important. I have learned that the top DIII schools still expect their athletes to have high SAT scores and grades.</p>

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<p>Scholarships: I agree with the posts who say there just isn’t much money in athletics, and certainly not much in track. There may be indirect money, in that your son may be able to be admitted to a selective school (assuming he has the grades and scores) if he’s also willing to run/is recruited to run. Depending on how the FAFSA formula works out for you, he might find he can go to a “better” school for the same cost as a state school, for example.</p>

<p>Is he just going in to his sophomore year? If so, you’re right to want to let his running develop slowly, and to avoid overtraining and injuries. He’s still growing, and this is a very vulnerable time for young runners. As you say, you don’t want burn-out or career ending injuries. As far as pushing the season out to include JO, Simplot Games, NXN, Footlocker, and the many other national showcase type races, I’d take it one season at a time. If he’s feeling particularly strong at the end of an XC or track season, consider having him work the several more weeks it would require to compete at the next level. It is not necessary to go to very many post-season competitions, as long as he goes when he’s feeling good, and posts a few good times in the next couple of years. If he’s still PRing at local meets, and has some competition, no need to travel much yet. He could post some fast times on the home track and those times will be regarded highly. If he needs to be pushed by a fleet of fast guys to get a new PR, then is the time to go to a national meet. </p>

<p>Video: my kid was asked by only ONE coach during college recruiting, for a video of her running. It wasn’t a school she was terribly interested in, so we didn’t bother. Running is all about how long it takes you to get around the track :)</p>

<p>Pro coach or HS coach? So much depends on the quality and experience of his HS coach. Does he have a history of coaching kids to state championships, and placing them in college running programs? If not, you might want to carefully explore another coach, but ideally it would be someone who would be very respectful of the HS coach, and vice versa, so your son isn’t confused about how to train, and isn’t constantly trying to decide who to follow. I’ve heard of kids getting kicked off of their HS team for following a private coach’s advice. The kids quit going to HS XC and track practice and followed the private coach’s training schedule, but the school district required attendance at track practice, and the coach also felt the “special treatment” for these athletes was detracting from building a team. Be very cautious about using a private coach. The exception might be summer, up until the date that regular XC practice begins, if a plan could be made to integrate the two programs.</p>

<p>Best wishes- it’s a fun ride.</p>

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<p>Thanks, Mainelonghorn, for the information on you S’s experiences and what “being on books” means – books are expensive, but a very small compared to tuition, so this is very helpful to know.</p>

<p>We have been told all along not to expect any athletic scholarships for running – I just want to know more about who does get them (such as runners from Kenya) and the range of possible amounts at particular schools like what you shared about Texas (since I will be paying the tuition). </p>

<p>Luckily S2 only runs because he loves it, as opposed to aiming for big bucks in college (and it is very reinforcing to him when he and his team do well). Likewise, since running won’t be a lifelong career for him, he is pursuing academic achievement that will help him get into schools, perhaps with academic scholarships.</p>

<p>Thanks again and best wishes to you and your S as you enter this final phase of the college quest!</p>

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<p>Riverrunner- Big thank you to you, as well, for your reflections on scholarships, pacing runner development, sports recruiting videos and “outside” coaches.</p>

<p>I think this year S2 has had plenty of hs competition by running V most of his frosh yr (he is a rising sophmore in hs) inlcuding some “invitational” events. He only ran frosh races for the “finals” where, aside from the 3000 in track, he had no real competitors to “push” his times. This should change next year when he only runs V.</p>

<p>Good to know recruiting videos are mostly unnecessary.</p>

<p>The “outside” coach under consideration for the future is actually a local hs coach (at a different hs) who does elite distance runner coaching on the side (so does this make him a “professional” coach?). He has an excellent reputation and has had very good success, such as the runner who is nationally ranked in track currently. Right now it is going so well for S2 I am not inclined to add any outside coaching – I want to keep it low key. His hs coach has about 15-20? years of experience and had a state champion track(?) team about 10-15 years prior (at a different hs). My son adores this man and I would not want to jeopardize this special relationship by hiring an outside coach without careful planning/reasoning. So I will not plan on this for the moment, but see how things develop for my son and if he “outgrows” what his hs coach has to offer. </p>

<p>Thanks again for sharing your thoughtful feedback!</p>

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<p>We thought about getting an outside coach, but like your son, mine really admires and gets along with his coach. Their team wins state championships fairly often (two XC and one indoor in the past two years), so he knows what he’s doing. He’s also had kids go on to do some serious running (Ben True at Dartmouth, for example). I figured it was best not to interfere with him.</p>

<p>The Texas coach said that you just have to let the kids do their best and see what happens. He said it really is a crap shoot. You can get an excellent HS runner who doesn’t do well at all in college - he/she can’t handle coming in minutes slower than an elite runner in an 8K race! Other times, he’s had walk-on athletes improve unbelievably fast and go to national college meets.</p>

<p>Our outlook during the college search has kind of changed. At first, we were putting more emphasis on a school’s running program; now we’re looking more at academics and cost. We are NOT going to go into huge amounts of debt to send him to Amherst, for example, even though they have a good program. There is SO much to think about!We’ve contacted several coaches, and need to e-mail a few more in the next couple of weeks. We like Susquehanna, although our son would probably be their fastest runner. He’s not thrilled with that idea, but he liked the coach, campus, and academics. They’re known for giving good merit aid packages, too.</p>

<p>Good luck! Have fun watching your son run. The time goes by quickly. I can’t believe we’re coming up on his last year. His younger brother will be on the XC team, but he has my genes and runs slowly, lol!</p>

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<p>flutetalk, our local HS coaching scene is similar to yours: in the off seasons, the high school coach (not our school) who has the passion for developing runners, takes top runners from all the local schools and helps them prepare for post-season meets. He does this with the help and blessing of our school’s coach. We are very lucky. One of the bonuses of working with him is the connection runners make to the larger HS running community. Most of the competitive HS kids in our area gather together with this coach for off-season training. This is a very healthy and beneficial thing, in my opinion. If something like that exists through this other HS coach, it’s worth looking at, as long as your present HS coach thinks its a good idea. There’s plenty of time for this. I’m always pleasantly surprised by the way many running coaches are able to put ego aside and put the young athlete first. (not always- you can hear horror stories- but often.)</p>

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<p>Thanks Maine Longhorn for your continued insights. I enjoyed reading about Ben True - he sounds “unbelievable”!
Susquehanna sounds like a nice school - we considered it because it has an excellent music program, but S1 had the problem you describe of not wanting to be one of the “best” on his instrument coming into college (he will be going to Oberlin Conservatory of Music this fall).</p>

<p>After the process with S1 I am even more aware of looking at what college can offer in terms of financial aid (academic, merit, athletic vs loans). At some schools there is a bigger “gap” between your EFC and what the school can offer (that they want you to fill with loans) so I want to do more research on school endowments, scholarship possibilities, etc. ahead of time for S2. I am with you about not wanting to go into major debt (or having my child take out loans he will struggle to repay) for college.</p>

<p>I will certainly let myself enjoy watching S2’s running unfold in whatever direction it takes him. I feel very lucky that he has intellectual talents, as well, since it gives him many options in what he does with his life and takes the pressure off in athletics.</p>

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<p>Riverrunner - Sounds like an ideal situation with cooperation between the regular HS coach and the elite coach working together to develop atheletes. S2 has been very fortunate to have extremely supportive coaches since he started running in 4th grade. They seem to really enjoy helping everyone succeed (even when it means your child is faster than their older, also talented, child). It is a wonderful sense of comraderie and family.
Thanks for your continued feedback. What kind of running does your child do? Is she (?) in college?</p>

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<p>Hi flute,
I’m going to PM you- I’m not hard to unravel, but would rather not be completely transparent!</p>

13

<p>

The top DIII schools require BETTER grades/SATs than their D1 counterparts by nature of being DIII.

Greely HS? One of my teammates went there.</p>

<p>As far as getting a private coach, my recommendation is a strong NO unless his own coach has no idea what he’s doing. For the summer, he’d be better off focusing on base mileage and asking his coach for a workout plan. It would also be a good idea for him to learn some of this stuff himself - pick up a copy of Daniel’s Running Formula and do some reading on the forums at dyestat.com and letsrun.com.</p>

<p>Also, this is pretty early to start thinking about any sort of scholarship. You shouldn’t do much college searching for at least another year or so. For now he should focus on staying healthy and improving as well as remaining passionate about the sport. Out of curiosity, what are some of his times?</p>

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<p>hebrewhammer, that’s cool! Can you message me who went to Greely?</p>

<p>Oh, I know DIII athletes are held to a stricter standard than DI, but I think some HS kids think they can get into a DIII school easier than non-athletic students. That might be true for the top athletes, but it sounds as if it’s not the case for most kids.</p>

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<p>Hi Hebrewhammer- I will PM you his PR’s separately but can’t do it right away. I will have to look them up – can’t keep them in my head at all due to both “old age” and the fact that they keep changing!</p>

<p>I know it is “early” to look at things like schools, scholarships, etc. but at my age you realize how fast the years fly by! I agree heartily that enjoyment of anything you do is more important than outcome per se</p>