Echoing @Temperantia my D got into Lafayette a few years ago (absolutely loved her experience there FWIW) and did not take/submit SAT subject tests. I will say that she was academically well qualified, had excellent ECs, and that she applied ED.
You should note that schools recommend but do not require subject tests, because they don’t want to burden low income students who may not have the resources to take them. But if you are coming from a competitive high school where a lot of students take them, then you should take some as well.
OP - I hear what you are saying about junior year spring - between finals, APs and the regular SAT/ACT, it is a crazy schedule to try to fit in subject tests. But the good news is, preparing for the US History AP, prepares you well for the US History subject test, and with the new August test dates, it will help with scheduling.
Also consider that even though you are not considering tippy top schools. schools in the 20-50 range, still can deny 65-80% of applicants. And a school like G’town, which I believe is #20, really expects to see 3 subject tests. So don’t be fooled that outside the top 20 the standards are lower - it is still very competitive in that range of schools.
I also see a lot of posts here saying, well I’m not interested in STEM. so it won’t matter if I have low math/science scores. Again, even if you are not looking at Ivies, other schools in 20-50 range want the strongest students they can get.
I support taking the tests. If you do well, it can help you. Tempkid1 took a few but in the end the scores were fine but not likely to impress so he didn’t submit them. Overall his stats were good and he was coming from a known school. Admitted RD.
Has she taken any class this year that could be taken as a subject test?
If not, don’t worry, she can take them in May or Use next year.
Us history and Literature are fine. Add a foreign language so that she has three (foe colleges that want/recommend three.)
Private colleges look at them and take them into account.
‘recommend’ is the word that means 'we don’t want to discourage applicants from lower performing rural and urban schools who’ve never heard of these tests from applying but if you attend a good school, submit. ’
Students from advantaged backgrounds should treat “recommended” as “required”, but the college lists them as “recommended” because some students from disadvantaged backgrounds may not have them (or may not have even heard of them until it was too late to take them in time for college applications).
Only for some divisions or majors at some campuses:
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/requirements/examination-requirement/SAT-subject-tests/
Probably depends on the high school. Back when I was in high school (a non-elite public school which sent about 1/3 of graduates to four year colleges, mostly state universities), taking them (then called Achievement tests) after completing the associated high school course was not difficult earn a high score with no additional preparation besides the associated high school course (e.g. score in the 700s on the physics test after regular high school physics, score of 800 on math level 2 after precalculus). But if the high school is of really poor quality, then it may require more preparation to fill in the gaps.
@MYOS1634 She’s taking Chem, Honor’s Eng, Geometry, AP World History and a foreign lang. I think we’ll wait till next year when she has more APs.
@wisteria100 So far, she has excelled at everything except geometry. She’s actually good at math, but makes careless mistakes in geometry for some reason. We’'ll see how next yr goes after taking Alg 2/Trig. She did well in Alg 1.
I noticed another college of interest say these tests are optional. Is that the same thing as “recommended”?
She could take the subject test in world history. Just one, this Saturday, no pressure, just to see how she does. (She’d be part of the walk in group)?
@MYOS1634 There’s no way she can take the test Sat. I wish she could, but she’s going to an all-day concert that cost a lot of money! I think she has friends taking it early in the morning before the concert, but I think we’ll just wait til next yr.
No problem at all. Really, it can wait till junior year.
@citymama9 A lot of kids have problems with geometry but not algebra. I think there is more algebra on the standardized tests than geometry.
Optional would seem to be different than recommended, but honestly she should take a couple so she is covered, and if she scores well, they can only bolster her app. If she doesn’t score well, she do have to submit them to most places.
A few weeks ago I heard an admissions officer from an Ivy school answer a question about recommended SAT II tests directly. He said that at least at the school he represents that the “recommended” designation for SAT II exams was implemented to help those who could not afford to take the test or those who did not have the exams offered in a convenient location. He did go on to say that not including SAT II exams would not hurt a candidate at his college. He recommended that if a candidate has strong SAT II scores that they should be submitted as they can help an application, but if a candidate too SAT II exams and didn’t have strong results he/she would be better off not submitting them.
@ucbalumnus All good points, but…
- After listening to several test prep companies (local and national) and various speakers that have come to my D's campus over the last couple years, a large diverse multi-cultural public HS in Silicon Valley, nearly every student that applies to universities with "recommended" for subject tests, chooses to take the subjects tests.
- If you're not submitting subject tests to the top UC's, no matter your major, then you'll be at a competitive admissions disadvantage.
- IMO, you prep for any subject test, no matter the HS course. I would never have my D go into a subject test without prepping for the test to make sure all material has been reviewed to be sure the HS course has covered it. Your anecdotal example wouldn't sway me or my D. Hard for me to imagine the HS course covering 100% of the subject test material. But if they did, I'd still prep for insurance.
For my 2 Ds , we did regret not asking them to take USH subject test after sophomore year with APUSH. It was their first AP and both did very well. Finally, D1 took Math 2 and Chem after junior year and D2 will do too. It turned out it did not matter for D1 without taking the history subject test and saved $50.
One advantage to waiting until Junior year to take all of the subject tests is that your child will have had much more practice taking standardized tests by then. My daughter took the biology subject test as a freshman, and then waited to take further subject tests until the end of junior year (She took US History, Math2 and Chem). My son is a current sophomore and is not taking any subject tests this year either. He took Biology in 9th grade and will probably take Math 2 and either Chemistry or Physics next year. The advantage to our school is that kids in AP classes don’t have finals, so they can use the extra time after the AP exams to prep for the June SATs. @billcsho, my daughter got a 5 on the AP US history test, but only a 690 on the SAT, so there may not be that much correlation between the 2 exams.
@patatty I wish our school didn’t make them take finals if they are doing APs. They have to take AP tests, finals and Regents tests. That’s why I wasn’t even thinking about SAT II’s. It just seems like all these tests are overkill.
The kind of high school that has visits from test-prep company speakers is the kind where students are expected to treat “recommended” subject tests as “required”. The kind of high school that may have a handful of graduates go on to a four year college or university is the kind where students may not have heard of the subject tests before it is too late, and which colleges or universities that “recommend” subject tests may be more understanding if a student from there does not have them.
UC says on http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/requirements/examination-requirement/SAT-subject-tests/ that subject tests are recommended for applicants to:
UCB: College of Chemistry and College of Engineering
UCLA: School of Engineering
UCSD: School of Engineering and science majors
@citymama9 Note that there is now an August session for subject test (and SAT1 too). It would have no conflict with AP and final. It is perfect for subject test as there are a couple months tobdo practice and go through the materials not covered by corresponding AP courses.
@ucbalumnus Not true at all. You’re making an assumption about my D’s high school. And it’s wrong. Lots of kids at D’s HS don’t go to college, whether 2 or 4 year. Class size is around 600 +/-. A significant portion of the school comes from various low income areas.
Additionally, the speakers both from test prep companies as well as authors and others were speaking nationally, with statistics, not just locally or regionally.
“UC says”? Do you know what actually takes place? Like reality? Seriously, move along.
It is not wrong that if the high school has speakers coming to talk about standardized testing including subject tests for college applications that it is not one of the more disadvantaged environments where students may not have even heard of subject tests before it is too late.
Percentage of graduates to 4-year colleges, 2-year colleges, and otherwise?
Do you know, or are you just assuming from the speakers of test-prep companies that are trying to sell their services?