<p>I've been "lurking" for over a month now and still do not understand this, so parents -- enlighten me! My 11th grader is taking the SAT next month. She has been advised by a friend who goes to U Chicago (NOT GCs!!) to also take the subject tests to "impress" colleges -- he feels this put him over the edge for competition. Is it NECESSARY to take these extra tests? Why? Are the subject tests required for some programs? If you are applying to 5+ colleges, and have no idea which ones yet, how do you know which ones to take? She is going into neuroscience, so any advice on which subject tests to take for that major? Thanks for the help!</p>
<p>P.S. I absolutely love this forum, and wish I could buy all you parents dinner for all that I've learned.</p>
<p>Many of the top tier schools require 2 SAT Subject tests (some still require 3). Several, like U Chicago, "recommend" them. But the vast majority of schools don't require them at all, and will probably not even look at them. </p>
<p>That being said, if she wants neuroscience, she should probably take Math Level 2, and a science - whichever one she's taking this year, so the info is still fresh in her mind.</p>
<p>It would be a good idea to look up the websites of the kind of colleges your D is likely to want to apply to. Those which require SAT-IIs are in a minority, but they are the most competitive ones. At a place like Chiacgo, which only recommends taking them, it is a good idea to take them, as your D's friend suggested.</p>
<p>Your D should take 2-3 SAT-IIs. She can take two at one sitting (they're one hour each), 3 if she feels she will not be tired by the third one. If so, she can take another one next fall. </p>
<p>Ordinarily, colleges look for SAT-IIs in different subject areas (eg. not 3 sciences or 3 humanities). Your D should take the Math 2c; it's more advanced than Math-1c but the curve is said to be more generous. She should take the test in the Science class she has finished by the end of this year. Get one of the SAT-II review books and make sure her class is covering all the materials (many teachers only cover part of the curriculum). She may want to take another Science test or a humanities test.</p>
<p>Another thing to keep in mind is that a student cannot take both the SAT-I and SAT-II Subject Tests in the same day: they must be scheduled on separate test dates. The SAT-IIs will be offered on the first Saturdays in May and June this year. I believe you can take up to 3 SAT-IIs on the same test date.</p>
<p>And as hinted above, of the selective schools that do require SAT-IIs, some (especially heavy science/technology schools) will not accept Math-I but will require Math-2C, so take that one instead, just in case. Each school's website will give some hint of their requirements (or non-requirements); if she takes Math-2C, and a science, and possibly a third in a humanities/social science, she'd cover most bases at most schools, based on her academic interests as you report them.</p>
<p>When colleges "recommend" something, you are much better off doing it. Stanford "recommends" SAT IIs, but only 2% of their admited students got in without.</p>
<p>It really depends on the caliber of schools your daughter is planning to apply to. Anything at the very top will probably require SAT IIs.</p>
<p>"Ordinarily, colleges look for SAT-IIs in different subject areas (eg. not 3 sciences or 3 humanities)."</p>
<p>To repeat: These days, only a small handful of colleges require 3 SAT IIs (H,Y,P; off hand, I don't know who else). You do not need to take 3 SAT IIs unless you are pretty sure you might be applying to a school that requires three (though of course you can if you feel like it). You should take two SAT IIs if you are thinking of applying to the top-20 type schools, as may either require it or strongly recommend it. If you don't like the scores on the two tests you take you can either retake that subject or take a third subject instead. </p>
<p>I would need some evidence before I bought into the proposition that colleges want to see SAT IIs in different broad areas (e.g., one in science, one in humanities.). Stanford suggests one should be Math Level II, but that's one school. I am much more familiar with college sites that say any two SAT IIs will do (and that the schools will count your two highest SAT II scores). Sure, maybe it makes common sense not to submit just Math Level 1 and Math Level 2 -- or US History and World History. But I really don't see any problem in, say, Math and Chemistry, or English Lit and US History. Don't make this harder than it is. You should take the tests in the subjects in which you are strongest -- absent some specific statement from the college you are applying to that a specific test or distribution of tests is required. (Obviously, if you say you are interested in engineering and submit Eng Lit and French for your SAT IIs, it might raise some eyebrows; but my assumption is that as a general rule one's strongest subjects in HS are going to be correlated with potential college majors that might be indicated on the application).</p>
<p>Wesdad, schools that have an interest in SAT Subject Tests are typically pretty good in defining what they need. Students who apply to engineering programs are "told" they should present a Math and a Science subject. </p>
<p>As far as selecting 2 or 3 tests on a given Saturday, I would highly recommend to prepare for THREE tests. Despite the fact that all scores will be reported, schools that only need two scores will simply pick your best scores. The main reaon why Score Choice was eliminated was because colleges had no interest in the number of test scores that were hidden -in other words they could not care less. This said, I am not suggesting to use te official administrations as mere practices. There is little merit in spending a Saturday morning slaving over tests without an adequate preparation. That is what practice tests are for. </p>
<p>Lastly, one has to realize that there are NOT that many choices for SAT Subject Tests. This offers a strak contrast with the AP tests that come in all humanly possible colors and flavors. I heard that AP Basque/Swahili, AP Baton Twirling, and AP Pie Baking are in the making. It is not true, but the Princeton boys may enjoy reaching 100 APs before they'll add more SAT Subject Tests! :)</p>
<p>A bit of advice about the SAT-2 tests. The science ones have a tendency to be fairly arcane and represent knowledge that is covered in an advanced course. This is especially true of the chemistry test, which may chem teachers consider equivalent to the AP test. There are two biology tests and it would behoove the test-taker to take a few practice tests to determine which one they are better prepared for. The physics test seems to cover some chemistry as well. Again, a practice test or two would be valuable.</p>
<p>Math 1-C and 2-C are not that different in the material covered--but strongly different in the kinds of questions asked. Again, a practice test would be good.</p>
<p>Of the humanities-type tests, the Literature test has the advantage of not covering specific material. It is not, in fact, based on outside specific knowledge, but instead of readings within the test. This is advantageous to students who need a humanities test but who haven't had much in the way of fact-based history courses. </p>
<p>will allow you to examine the score curves for the various tests. I find it fascinating reading. It's amazing to me, for example, that 26% of those Washington students who took the Math 2-c test scored from 750-800.</p>
<p>Xiggi -- Yes, you are right about engineering schools, they do tend to define what they need. For example, compare Columbia College with the Engineering school. My real point is that while the Columbia Engineering school does specify, Columbia College says: take any two SAT IIs you like, and my sense is that the latter is what is true at most schools that ask for SAT IIs (though if you are planning to major in certain science/math subjects, then some schools may suggest a particular test). </p>
<pre><code> As for taking two or three tests: sure take three if you have three subjects in which you are happy to take a test. But if you have only two subjects in which you feel really comfortable, then there is no need to force yourself to prepare for and take a third (you can always do that later). Of course, if there is a reasonable chance you will be applying to one of the few schools that requires three SAT IIs, then you will need to take three.
</code></pre>
<p>Some of the schools that require SAT II tests accept the ACT in lieu of both the SAT I and IIs. All of the reach schools my daughter applied to (including 3 Ivies and U Chicago) were this way. She liked the ACT format better and did much better in it in practice tests and so didn't take the SAT I. Her SAT IIs were lackluster (probably a combination of texts that didn't correspond well to the tests and nerves on test day), so she didn't even bother submitting those scores. Once acceptances came in, her choice came down to Brown versus Chicago.</p>
<p>Then again, there aren't any SAT IIs that relate to her chosen field. So schools weren't going, "Hmmm ... why didn't she take X?"</p>
<p>DianeR, since my D is taking both the ACT and SAT, then maybe we'll hold off on the SAT IIs till we have a better idea of where she is going to apply. We know for sure, no Ivys (no money)! Thanks for your input, all.</p>
<p>One last thought, if your daughter is taking any AP classes, then have her take the SAT test[ if applicable] for those same classes in May and/ or June. She will probably be well prepared, having taken the more rigorous AP course, to do well on the SAT subject test.</p>
<p>just remember that it is better to take the SAT II immediately after you finish the class - ie. - take bio in june after freshman year, us history right after junior year etc.</p>
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<p>just remember that it is better to take the SAT II immediately after you finish the class - ie. - take bio in june after freshman year<<</p>
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<p>Watch out for the bio test. At our local high school, there are 3 bio classes: lab bio 1 (often taken as a freshman), lab bio 2 (often taken as a junior--chem taken in sophomore year), and lab bio 3 (taken in senior year by those who really like bio). If your school is like ours, you will NOT be ready for the SAT 2 molecular bio test after your freshman year. You can take the SAT bio test after taking lab bio 2 if you prep with a book to teach yourself areas covered on the test but not in your classes.</p>
<p>Our S's school is different. There is only biology, either regular or accelerated (usually taken as a freshman) and then AP bio which can be taken junior or senior year. Most schools I know are structured this way, although I'm sure there must be some like yours also. My S took the SAT II after bio accelerated freshman year (there is a choice to take the molecular or environmental section - I believe he took the environmental) and did fine.</p>
<p>My d took the SAT II in chem after honors chemistry in which she got an A. She bombed, as did some of the other kids in her grade - all clustered around the same scores. So it wasn't just her.</p>
<p>So while you may have some decent knowledge of the subject matter, and it makes sense to take the SAT II then, remember that your kid's class is probably not sufficient for the test.</p>
<p>Many of the SAT-II takers are students who have completed an AP in the subject; so a student who took an Honors class will be at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>Harvard continues to require 3 SAT-IIs and encourages breadth:</p>
<p>Which SAT II Subject Tests should students take?
To satisfy our application requirements, applicants must take three SAT IIs, and students may choose any three subjects, with the exception of the English Language Proficiency Test (ELPT). Applicants may wish to convey the breadth of their academic interests by taking tests in different subjects. </p>
<p>Schools that recommend (not require) three SAT IIs -- JHU, Northwestern;
Georgetown requires three SAT IIs (as it does not consider the WR component of the SAT I)</p>
<p>MIT currently</a> requires 3 SAT II tests for entry in 2006: one math, one science (physics, chem, or either bio), and a third "of your choice" (which can be the <em>other</em> math or another science, if you'd like). </p>
<p>In previous years, the third SAT II was required to be Writing, before the new 3-part SAT I came into being. In future years, starting with entrance in 2007, only a math and a science are required.</p>