Help! How to Determine Realistic Reach Schools for "Average Excellent" Student

My daughter just finished her junior year and we’d both like for her to make great progress on college apps this summer/

She should be a NMF, so her safety/match schools are UCF, USF, UF, and maybe UA or UTD; we expect she’ll receive more or less full-ride scholarships from these options.

All her other schools will likely be reach schools, including match schools that are a financial reach because she’d very generous need or merit aid. Since they all seem like a lottery at this point, we’re having trouble narrowing down the list - and in fact, the reach list seems to keep growing.

So I’m hoping to get some pragmatic advice on reach schools that are a financial/academic fit and not a complete pipe dream.

STATS -I hate the term, but I would say she’s an “average excellent” student. IB program, highest rigor, 4.0 UW, 4.8-ish W, not sure about rank but top five in county (of ~5000) so I think she’s at least top three in her class, 1550 SAT (one sitting only). She hopes to score a 36 on ACT (mainly b/c her friend has a perfect score. LOL. I’d give 50/50 odds.)

ECS - Mainly varsity and club swimming, part-time work, and a handful of typical EC clubs. A few awards, but nothing at the national level. No research etc. Some leadership, but ECs are a weak point - hard to fit more in when she swims/works 25 hours/week. (She started swimming in 8th grade, so is not recruit able at the most selective schools. HPYMS are incredibly fast for D3 swimmers! But her times are competitive at some D3 schools.)

FINANCES - Huge part of our decision-making. Single mom, no support or contact - father would likely not complete forms if we were to track him down. We are not receiving court-ordered child support, so I think we have a reasonable shot at a wavier, but it’s another hurdle. Our EFC averages around 14k, except at the most prestigious schools. This would be a financial stretch, but not impossible, particularly if loans aren’t included in package.

FIT: We both realize that she may very well need to go to a state school for financial reasons - and we’re grateful that’s an option. BUT she wants to take her best shot at looking at other options. She is particularly focused on leaving Florida, and is not excited about NMF schools in Texas, Alabama, Kentucky. (She’s never been to those states, so I am encouraging her to keep an open mind.) I worry about cold climates, as she’s never seen snow or experienced cold weather, but maybe I worry too much. (I came to UF at 17 b/c I found Virginia too cold…lol.)

She is also overly-focused on the rankings and prestige factor, but really what she wants are rich opportunities in terms of internships, study abroad, research, etc. She is adamant that she doesn’t want just an “average” career - she wants to make a difference AND have a reasonably high income. Unfortunately, she also doesn’t know what she wants to do - but it will likely be in science/math/statistic/economics/finance, but not engineering or pre-med. She also has an interest in working for the FBI or NSA as an analyst. (Her sister was an analyst, so I suppose that’s why.) She had considered a military academy, and while that’s now off the table, she does still have that inclination and has not ruled out ROTC if she can get the right scholarship.

Even though she is undecided, I think a school with a more pre-prof vibe might be best, as she’s very pragmatic, analytical and logical; I think the vibe at some universities might be too intellectual for her. She is also not interested in any women’s colleges. She is also politically liberal, but conservative in many other ways. For example, she found New College to be too “weird” and “crunchy” in her words - she ruled it out quickly."

In terms of size, I think mid-size would be ideal, but she’s flexible on that - as long as she’s not bored! She does have concerns about remote locations such as Grinnell and Sewanee.

I also hope she finds a school that will help her grow beyond being an excellent student; she has leadership skills and potential, but she needs the right environment to help her develop that side of herself.

QUESTION: So given the novel I’ve written, what reach schools would you suggest? Should she focus on schools that are an admissions reach (which tend to be pretty generous with need-based aid) or on less selective schools that offer large scholarships. I realize either approach will be very competitive, but I’d like to steer her towards schools where she has more than a snowball’s chance in Florida!

Some possibilities on the radar include Vanderbilt, Rice, Amherst, Davidson, Williams, Swarthmore, U of Richmond, Centre, Grinnell, Washington and Lee…then there are a ton of less selective schools that offer a handful of scholarships. We’ve also crossed out many “top contenders” because I don’t see a reasonable chance of an affordable financial package - Duke, UNC-CH, Wake Forest, UVA. But really, I feel like the more we’ve learned, the less we know…!

University of Chicago and Emory might be possibilities to consider. I would suggest WashU as well, but that may trend too much towards premed than desired.

If the weather isn’t bothersome, Rochester might fit the bill as well.

She sounds like a great kid.

Check out SMU to see if any of the merit scholarships would give you the price point you need.

My D20 sounds pretty similar in a lot of ways. She has been focusing on prestigious honors programs that match her interests at state universities. Examples include McDermott at UTD, Brockman at Texas A&M, and Randals Research Scholars at Alabama. There are a bunch of really exciting and exceptional opportunities available, but they are a lot of work to find. These particular programs would be matches to reaches for your D, I would say.

Apart from those, you have pretty much the same list and questions that we have. Maybe consider Tulane and USC; with her stats she would have a chance at full tuition, if that would be enough. COA might still be over 14K, though.

Sounds a lot like Wash U, if you could get the money to work out.

Have you run the Net Price Calculators at any schools? Vandy is known to have generous financial aid. ND has been very generous to us. I’m a single (divorced) mom with average excellent kids so feel free to PM me.

USC (South Carolina) has a very good honors program and your D should see merit $.

You have the safety situation covered. So, you can go to town on the rest. Getting the NCP waiver would make it possible for excellent financial aid packages that would be more likely than getting the very few merit awards that the most selective colleges offer.

I’d give W&L, Davidson, UNC-CH, Duke, Rice, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt a try. They have both merit and financial aid They are also warmer weather type schools. Tulane, UTDallas, Rhodes, also contenders

Barrett Honors at Arizona State is another possibility for a good OOS public with a possibility of merit aid.

OP’s daughter sounds like an ideal candidate for one of the Claremont Consortium schools, although IIRC they my not be the greatest for merit aid.

This might be a real reach, but Columbia seems like a good candidate school and if the swim times fit, then there is a possibility of recruiting.

USC (University of Southern California) has great merit awards for high stat kids if she applies by December 1st.

Dickinson might be a good safety that meets 99% of need.

@TrendaLeigh Vanderbilt and U Chicago do not require noncustodial financial information when applying for need-based aid.

Congrats to your D on her success in HS!

A few thoughts – I think your D would fit in well at Davidson and they are generous w/ financial aid.

Grinnell might be too crunchy for her.

UNC meets 100% of need aid even for OOS students so don’t write it off.

Good luck!

All colleges that require both parents’ information for FA will be reach based on needing the non-custodial parent (NCP) waiver (double-reach if they are already reach for admission). Because there is no published visibility in terms of how willing each college is to providing the NCP waiver, you may want to contact each college’s FA office directly to find out if there is a reasonable chance that the college may grant the NCP waiver for your situation.

Most of the colleges mentioned here do require NCP information or waiver. Of those mentioned here, Chicago, Vanderbilt, and UNC-CH do not (neither does ASU, but should be considered or not on the basis of merit scholarships, not need-based FA).

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/2083835-faq-divorced-parents-financial-aid-and-net-price-calculators.html

Thanks you for your suggestions - they are much appreciated. I ran the numbers on virtually all of the recommendations. Very informative - I was particularly bummed by the high EFC at Duke and especially WashU - ouch! We did find more reasonable EFCs at Vandy, Chicago, J Hopkins, and Wash Lee. (And I’m actually counting EFC, plus loans, and student contributions.)

@VryCnfsd, I think she needs to visit UA - and I think if she were to get into Randall Scholars (which sounds perfect for her btw), she’d be sold. I would love her to look at UT-D, but she’s really trying to get away from warm weather. McDermott would be a stretch for her as an introvert, but it would provide so many of the opportunities to have those “new experiences” she’s looking for.

Any suggestions for slightly less selective/lower ranked schools that offer full-ride (or at least a full tuition) scholarships, particularly if they offer internship/research/study abroad opportunities as part of the package? We are very open to public unis with strong honors colleges if the numbers work.

@momofsenior1, do you have any insights into how generous the aid is at SC? We both loved what we read about the Honor’s College. The location would give her the seasons she wants, without the brutal winters.

Here’s the link to the non resident scholarships for SC:

https://www.sc.edu/about/offices_and_divisions/undergraduate_admissions/tuition_scholarships/scholarships/nonresidents/index.php

@Trendaleigh Just curious as to what you think UA has to offer that you wouldn’t get at UF, which is well regarded flagship.

If she would like to swim like our D did with similar stats, check out (from highest to lowest ranked swim) Dartmouth (excellent NB), Vassar(excellent NB), Holy Cross and Clark (excellent Merit)

If she wants to get away somewhere cooler and enjoys the outdoors then we really like the University of Utah. They offer a competitive cohort based full ride (Eccles scholarship) for 30 students per year, but a 36 ACT should get full tuition plus $5000 towards room and board anyway (so remaining COA is about $8K). The Honors College is good and they have interesting internship and research opportunities, with good support for prestigious graduate scholarships like the Fullbright scholarships and the Churchill scholarships (a fully paid year in Cambridge for a math/science graduate), which they have won more than any other school in the last few years.

@momprof9904, We’re considering UA for the same reason we’re considering UCF - they both have strong honors colleges and special programs such as Randall Scholars for top students. For her, these options make a large school potentially feel smaller…If she had a firm major in mind, I’d be more inclined toward UF. And while I know UF has research/internship opportunities for freshman, I think she’ll grow more in an environment where she gets more personal attention, particularly as she’s fairy introverted and tends to fly under the radar.

She’s also been adamant since 6th grade that she wanted to go somewhere with four seasons - she’s not a fan of hot weather. It may seem silly, but I went to UF from Virginia because I love the weather here, so I get it. She loves NC, but SC, VA, and MD would be perfect. But she’s open to Mid-West and NE.

@RW1, thanks for the suggestions. She’s not fast enough for Dartmouth, but her times are in line for Vassar. EFC was reasonable as well…we’ll look at Holy Cross and Clark.