HELP! LAC son now wants veterinary educ'n

Parents Forum
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<p>Just wanted to come out in support of your support of your son! I also wanted to say that one of the perks of being a licensed vet tech is that you are in DEMAND! your S could go just about anywhere and be able to make a decent living. The truth is money is important, but so is the intrinsic value of doing a job you love...though it doesn't pay the bills. </p>

<p>Anyway, wealth is less a function of how much a person makes and more a function of how a person manages their money. If your son has been blessed with little to no debt and can get a nest egg put aside while living at home and working. He'll be miles ahead of where I was when I graduated.</p>

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<p>
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that it is enough to raise our kids and help support them through college- worrying about how they are going to someday support a family, is up to them

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<p>I think I need to repeat this to myself every day - several times!!!</p>

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<p>It's not that simple. I went to grad school for four years at UC Davis, and many of my friends were pre-vet and vet students. Each year I witnessed the jubilation and heartbreak of the vet school acceptances and rejections. And each year the vet school published the undergrad institutions of those who got in. And there were some distinct trends among those who got in to the vet school and those who didn't.</p>

<p>To begin with, there were very few LAC kids who were getting into the vet school. I'm not sure how many applied, but next to none were getting in. Big name schools such as Stanford and HYP didn't do as well as schools that had big and well known undergrad Animal Science programs. Each year about half of the entering class was drawn from just two schools: UC Davis itself and Cal Poly Pomona. The thing those two schools had in common? -- strong Animal Science programs.</p>

<p>The thing I'd recommend if he really wants to go to vet school is to transfer to a feeder university such as Davis or Cal Poly Pomona and get top grades majoring in Animal Science. And keep up with working in vets' offices. Volunteering is good too. Vet schools really want to see that you are <em>seriously</em> dedicated to helping animals.</p>

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<p>Things have changed a lot in the last 40 years as far as vet school admissions and job prospects.</p>

<p>My advice to the OPs son would be to do a bio major with all the prerecs for vet school, continue to work in a vet office, and then (if vet school is not in the cards) do a licensing course <em>if needed in your state</em> to work as a vet tech if that is what he wants to do.</p>

<p>There are lots of animal-related sorts of work in all sorts of industries. If you do a search on Monster.com or Careerbuilder.com for animal related jobs you'll find a bunch.</p>

<p>Me -- I was a pre-vet/animal sci major in the 70s and now own a pet store.</p>

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<p>Orange Blossom, Do a search for B.S. Veterinary Technology. You'll find quite a few schools but looks like your S would have to be willing to travel some distance from home. A few I saw were..</p>

<p>Purdue
North Dakota State Univ.
Univ. of Nebraska
Univ. of Wisconsin-River Falls
Univ. of Minnesota
Murray State Univ. (in Kentucky)</p>

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<p>re #23 Coureur, from what I know there is a big bias in favor of vet applicants that are likely to go into rural "big-animal" practices, i.e., cows, horses, etc. The vet profession feels it already has enough small animal, dog-cat vets in cities. </p>

<p>How do the admissions committees know? They look at where the applicants are from and where they went to undergrad. A student from Cupertino, graduating from Prestige LAC, is not likely to become a horse-cow vet in rural California. Your Davis or Cal Poly Animal Science majors might, however, if coupled with a rural upbringing. So I think that explains the bias you saw. </p>

<p>Also, there is no real way for an applicant to improve his chances if he is a big city guy. There is no prep course to learn rural ways -- listening to Jeff Foxworthy won't help.</p>

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<p>If vet school seems beyoud reach and he is considering a transfer, take a look at Delaware Valley College. They have an entire department devoted to various areas of animal and ag studies including zoo management.</p>

<p>A friend's daughter attends DVC in this department and seems to like the college and program a lot.</p>

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<p>coureur: Did you really mean Cal Poly Pomona? Cal Poly SLO is better known for it's animal science department.</p>

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<p>^^Yes, I meant Cal Poly Pomona. SLO is a fine school, but during the time I was at Davis, Pomona always did a better job of getting kids into vet school than SLO did. Cal Poly Pomona was second only to UC Davis itself as a feeder school for the vet school.</p>

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DS attends McDaniel College...a great school with a very supportive environment and wonderful professors. However, he does not like the type of kid that goes there...too egocentric, too cocky, too mean-spirited, and often too drunk and vulgar. He also isn't enjoying the more classical education that the college offers...much seems irrelevant to him...and the very substantial required core isn't appealing to him.

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<p>With an estimated Cost of Attendance of $37,000+, is going back in the fall the best idea? How about taking a leave of absence, working at the vet place, and doing some research and soul-searching? He might find a place much more suited for him and begin in January or next fall. Or he might realize he wants to return to McDaniel with a renewed committment.</p>

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<p>One of my riding buddies is currently attending Vet school at Ohio State. She went an alternate route - BA in biology, job in some sort of human research, marriage, then her husband suggested that she apply to vet school. She was accepted, and then had to complete her vet related volunteer / work hours and retake a couple of bio course so that would be current. I found that interesting - that the school was not adverse to an older (mid-thirties) applicant.</p>

<p>Perhaps taking a leave of absence from McDaniel would not be a bad idea. During my first time around in college - I continued on with no direction, and it turned out to be a big waste of time and money.</p>

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<p>Hi, MaryTN, Ohio_Mom, and everyone who's posted so far -</p>

<p>Thank you for your input. I appreciate it very much. My husband and I need time to reflect on all that's going on. I will continue to absorb all the wisdom you each offer, and post back at appropriate times.</p>

<p>Love you all....</p>

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<p>Daughter just graduated with a BS in animal science (science discipline) from our large in-state university which has the state's only vet school. The local community college does offer an AS in vet tech.</p>

<p>She thoroughly researched all her options before we decided to move to the other side of the country. She had been at a community college and her in-state vet school would have been Davis. She knew the odds of getting in there and when we as a family decided to move her research played a large role in our decision.</p>

<p>With 5 kiddos all close to being college-age, in-state unis for undergrad and GRAD school played a large factor in our decsion on where to relocate. And especially the financial aspect.</p>

<p>Our particular in-state vet school option has very detailed pre-reqs for application and admission. Specific down to exact class requirements. And specific animal science courses. I think 68 semester hours as the specific pre-reqs and the remaining in one's major. </p>

<p>Animal science can also vary in type. For example, daughter's school offers an animal science BS but in either science concentration (for vet school) or in industry (farms, business). HUGE difference, one concentrates on how beef is cut up for sale and how to buy in large quantities and the other how to cure cows. When first analyzing schools for undergrad she did not realize the differentiation within the major but once explained it made an enormous difference in where she should attend.</p>

<p>Also attending undergrad with the vet school on the same campus made for some wonderful internship and research opportunities. Many of the same profs that teach at the vet school also teach the undergrad/grad school classes.</p>

<p>Also of note was many of the students in her upper division required classes for vet school were full of students who had already previously graduated and still needed additional classes to meet the pre-reqs. And no, these were not bio/chem/physics/calc but rather animal reproduction, animal genetics, etc.</p>

<p>Some were Duke grads, Meredith, Davidson, Swat, all needing to complete not only their academic pre-reqs but they also needed 400 hours (minimum) of supervised work experience with a vet. They don't include another 400 hours for animal experience and pets don't count. There are schools that don't require as much but this all the minimum to apply.</p>

<p>Daughter is good friends (research job) with a Cornell microbiology grad. Also has her MS in micro. She moved here from NY and worked for a year and then applied to our in-state vet school. It took 8 (eight) tries for her to gain acceptance. As in 8 years. She had great grades and great GRE scores but little verified/supervised vet expereince and was missing some of the required courses.</p>

<p>She is in her third year but it took eight years. Daughter's fellow classmates with their BS in animal science (science) and hours through the undergrad program with less stellar GPA and stats accepted on the first try.</p>

<p>While daughter was waiting to matriculate she was hired as a vet tech (nurse) for a large chain of pet hospitals. Vet tech label for those with AA and nurse for those with BS. Vet tech pay here is $7-$9 per hour and nurse is $9-$15 depending on time with hospital. It does NOT pay at all like a nursing degree for humans. With full-time benefits are added, but not great.</p>

<p>For perspective other son and daughter's work study in college right now is a minimum of $10 per hour. Her lab job for work study pays $13. Now we reside in a state with a very low minimum wage but gas proces here are still very high. I think it would be very difficult to reside alone on $10 per hour and again this is with BS that is required for the postion.</p>

<p>She was recruited by some animal bio research firms (which she did for a short while, not a good fit YUCK) and the pay there was starting $15 per hour and upwards depending on how nasty the experiment.</p>

<p>So I would second the other posters who said if he REALLY, REALLY wants vet med then he should consider a transfer.</p>

<p>And you do not have to be super smart. You need to be committed, and taking the right coursework. Show committment through volunteer, job and research. </p>

<p>And do your homework about the vet schools and corresponding undergrad programs. Most are land-grant institutions and weight heavily on in-state residency. Very heavily.</p>

<p>Good luck and feel free to ask more questions.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>kat -
kudos to your D's friend and her eighth time's the charm ... I would never have been so pursistant.</p>

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<p>Katwkittens - what an interesting and informative post - thank you. We are learning some of the requirements but are in the early stages so found your post really interesting. My daughter is a rising college freshman with plans to pursue vet med. The vet school at her college lists all the academic pre reqs but says rather vaguely (no hours specified) that work experience with a vet is beneficial and that one of the required references must be from a vet. She has just started a job with a vet that she hopes will continue through the 4 years of undergrad. Our State vet school is definitely mainly for residents - 56 out of 80 spots.</p>

<p>Your daughters friend sure is to be admired for her tenacity! I bet there are not many people who would try 8 times - good for her.</p>

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<p>OrangeBlossom, my son has wanted to be a vet since he was 7 years old - he has built his own koi pond, done minor surgery on our own pets, was in 4-H and bred award-winning rabbits and internned at our local vet office during summers. He has now come to realize the (im)practicality of vet school for him. Other posters have mentioned it - 28 vet schools in the U.S. - very limited places, most offer first placement to local/state graduates and there are very definite pre-requisites that need to be met for acceptance. University of Minnesota is looking for students who want to be large-animal vets as there is a shortage for that type of vet in the area. There are one or two other universities offering accelerated programs for large-animal medicine (OK State and Texas A&M I think). </p>

<p>After all these years, and much research, my son has decided he would rather invest the study time, money and effort into becoming a medical doctor and use the money he makes from (what should be) a more lucrative career to have his own ranch with as many animals as he can afford to take care of. I questioned his thought process at first because medicine is not a career that one should undertake solely for the money. However, after much discussion, I am convinced the money is only a small factor in his choice of profession (he has 2 aunts and an uncle who are medical doctors and I think spending time working with them has helped him come to his decision). The compassion and caring he would have invested with working with the pets' owners in a vet practice will be directed towards his own patients and their families. </p>

<p>I do know that one factor in his decision were the stories of one of my sisters in law who personally knows 3 people from her medical school class that were rejected from vet school - their stats were good enough for med school on the first try, but not vet school. The number of slots open simply don't allow for a large class and that translates into extreme selectivity for vet schools.</p>

<p>Do I have all the answers? No, I sure don't - I know there will probably be some people who say my son is making a mistake by not following his passion for animals, but he has decided to channel that appreciation for living creatures into a profession that will allow for his passion in his lifestyle rather than his livelihood.</p>

<p>I wish your son luck with making this difficult decision and I wish him well with his future.</p>

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<p>Well, I suppose he could tell himself that he is pursuing a large animal practice with a specialization in primates. :-)</p>

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<p>This sort of thing happened at Davis too. It was rarer to see someone get in on their first try than it was to see someone get in on their 6th try. Unlike medical school, where it was pretty much two tries and out, in the vet school application process you were expected to keep trying and trying. Showing dedication I suppose. The first try was considered by many to be pretty much an auto-rejection -- just a formality to get the process started. However, most strong students got in by their third or fourth try. But those eight year people were definitely not unheard of.</p>

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<p>University of California Davis School of Veterinary Medicine
Undergraduate Colleges of Admitted Students (data for admission fall 2007 and fall 2008) (Majority of undergraduate academic work) </p>

<p>University of California:<br>
Admitted Applied<br>
UC Berkeley 4 18<br>
UC Davis 39 164<br>
UC Irvine 3 14<br>
UC Los Angeles 3 17<br>
UC Riverside 0 2<br>
UC San Diego 9 37<br>
UC Santa Barbara 5 22<br>
UC Santa Cruz 5 12<br>
Total: 68 286 </p>

<p>California State Universities:<br>
Admitted Applied<br>
CSU, Bakersfield 0 0<br>
CSU, Chico 2 10<br>
CSU, Dominguz Hills 0 0<br>
CSU, East Bay 0 1<br>
CSU, Fresno 2 8<br>
CSU, Fullerton 0 4<br>
Humboldt State 0 8<br>
CSU Long Beach 1 8
CSU Los Angeles 0 3<br>
CSU, Monterey Bay 0 0<br>
CSU, Northridge 1 4<br>
CSPU, Pomona 5 41<br>
CSU, Sacramento 0 3<br>
CSU, San Bernardino 0 4<br>
San Diego State 0 6<br>
San Francisco State 2 8<br>
San Jose State 0 1<br>
CSU San Marcos 0 2<br>
CPSU San Luis Obispo 6 35<br>
Sonoma State 1 2<br>
CSU, Stanislaus 0 0<br>
Total: 20 144</p>

<p>Other California Colleges:
California Lutheran University 1
Mills College 1
Los Angeles Pierce College 2
Pomona College 1
Santa Clara University 1
Stanford University 2
University of Southern CA 1<br>
Westmont College 1
Total 10 </p>

<p>Out-of-State Colleges:
Arizona State University 1
Brown University, RI 1
Carnegie Mellon University, PA 1
Colorado College 1
Colorado State University 1
Cornell University, NY 2
Dartmouth University, NH 1
Duke University, NC 1
Jacksonville University, FL 1
Johns Hopkins University 1
Michigan State University 1
Randolph-Macon College, VA 1
Reed College, OR 2
Ripon College, WI 1
Trinity University, TX 1
University of Arizona 1
University of Connecticut 1
University of Delaware 1
University of Illinois 1
University of Maryland 1
University of Miami, FL 1
University of Michigan 1
University of Montana 1<br>
University of Nevada 1<br>
University of North Carolina 1
University of Vermont 1
University of Virginia 1
University of Washington 1
US Air Force Academy, CO 1
Vanderbilt University, TN 1
Worcester Polytechnic Institute, MA 1
Yale University, CT 1
Total: 33
V:admiss/statistics and profiles</p>

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<p>Interesting, csleslie...</p>

<p>coureur's earlier post about UC Davis and Cal Poly Pomona grads as having an inside track on vet admissions is only half true.</p>

<p>UCD grads admitted at a 24% rate (39/164). Cal Poly Pomona grads admitted at a rate of 12% (5/41).</p>

<p>The surprise undergrad college for vet admissions?---UC San Diego with a 24% admissions rate to UCD vet school (9/37).</p>

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<p>Notice Cal Poly SLO's numbers 6 out of 35. And not many LACs.</p>

<p>Kat</p>