<p>You are, of course, correct BME. Some people just cannot have their minds changed no matter what information and facts they are given. I was hoping that wasn’t true for your Dad, but if it is I am not sure what else you can do. Unfortunately sometimes there is no getting around the Golden Rule: Those that have the gold make the rules. Since you obviously need his financial support to attend either school, it puts you in a very difficult situation.</p>
<p>I suppose the only other advice I can think of at this point is that if it doesn’t go your way, then try as hard as you can to enjoy Case and make the best of it. After all, it isn’t like Case isn’t a very good school. I know you felt like the atmosphere there didn’t suit you, but if you find yourself there anyway, then try your best to prove yourself wrong!</p>
<p>Thanks FC! Haha I love/hate that “golden rule”–funny, sad, but true. I’m going to keep working to convince him until the enrollment deadline by emailing some department heads, President Cowen, and emailing him facts and statistics as I pick them up. I trying to see it as a challenge/competition–if I don’t win, at the very least, I would have put up a good fight.</p>
<p>Playboy says TU is a top 10 party school this year coming in at #8. Ask your Dad if he’d be OK with you attending UVA (#1), USC (#2) or Vandy (#7). I bet he would.</p>
<p>Ask him if he’d let you attend Duke, Penn, Yale, Columbia, UCLA, Berkeley or Brown, all of which are more dangerous than Tulane. I bet he would.</p>
<p>Yes northwesty! Those are the kind of stats I need. Here is what he sent me in response to President Cowen’s video:</p>
<p>My thoughts are that you should visit Case Western as earlier planned, it is important to firm up what you have already. I have a few other things I am checking out on Tulane like-I have a discussion with a graduate from there who is a professor at Indiana University. I want to be data and fact driven not what I think.</p>
<p>I am not convinced that all the arguments so far for Tulane swings my vote in favor of going there. As at now the data I have looked at points to Case Western, more data are coming in from my investigation of Tulane, latest by end of Next week. You did not say what Scholarship for instance. They have not given you a full ride.</p>
<p>So in response I said:</p>
<p>The scholarship is about the same as Case Western --20,000. I just want to let you know that I truly do not feel like Case Western will be a good fit. I will visit Case as planned, but I really cannot see myself going there and being happy. Scott Cowen, the man you saw in the video, once was on the adminstrative board at Case Western. I will get in touch with him and see if I can get anymore facts. I can also talk to the head of the BME department and see if I can get anymore information from Tulane. I will continue to feed you as many stats as I can regarding Tulane. Tulane is currently my dream school and Case is NOT where I want to go at all.</p>
<p>I’m curious to see what information you have about Case is influencing your current opinion. College rankings are flawed, and do not paint an accurate picture of academic prowess. Please send me any information you have about Case. Thanks</p>
<p>You are entitled to what you consider is best for you. The BME program fr case is better than Tulane. To me clear hear if you insist you must go to Tulane if my facts point out differently you will have to do it on your own. There will be no support for me.</p>
<p>Besides, if you are sure you are not going to Case you do not have to visit. It is a waste of everybody’s time.</p>
<p>I do not want any more communication about Tulane until I tell you my verdict</p>
<p>Wow, BME. I’m so sorry that you have to fight so hard for what you feel is the right fit for you. I could understand if one were going to cost far more than the other, etc. Yikes.</p>
<p>I have seen this a few times before and it would surprise some people (and not at all some others) how strongly some parents think that if they are paying they get to choose the school, and how strongly others feel this is as wrong as things can get. In fact, I have seen a few cases where the former not only feel like they get to choose the school, but also the child’s major, who they date, etc. Admittedly most of these people grew up in cultures where this kind of parenting is more common or even the norm, I cannot recall any that were past first generation in this country. While I obviously disagree with this stance, I no longer take the position they are absolutely wrong. I only feel they are totally wrong if they did not make this clear to their child from the time they were about 10 or so. It is amazing how many students don’t realize this is what the “rules” are until they are actually applying to college. That is completely unfair. Anyway, I digress and it doesn’t help BME much.</p>
<p>I do find his comment about not getting a full ride strange. She didn’t get one from Case either. So what is his point? Surely he cannot believe there is that much difference between Case and Tulane. I could understand the comment if we were talking about Harvard vs. Tulane. Although I would still think he was wrong, I could understand someone having that judgement.</p>
<p>You might consider going back through your posts here on cc that describe your feelings about the 2 schools and share them with your dad. Why would he not support youer decision if the cost difference is negligible and there are no compelling reasons to choose Case over Tulane? It should be your choice, not his.</p>
<p>BME – my girls can usually get their way with me by turning on the water works and telling me that they won’t be happy. But if your dad isn’t going for that, then be careful about chasing off $80k of financial support. You have to know when to hold em and know when to fold em. And you would be dumb to not go visit Case under these circumstances. Maybe you’ll like it. Maybe your Dad will be more open to your thoughts after you visit. </p>
<p>One last data point for you. The average college kid changes majors 3 times before graduating. There is a particularly high fall out rate for aspiring engineers. So even if Case has the world’s greatest BME program, there’s a statistically significant chance that you will wind up majoring in something else (regardless of what school you attend). How do Case and Tulane stack up if you wind up studying something else?</p>
<p>jym - I read what he wrote to be saying that it is her choice, but it is his choice not to have to pay for her choice if he disagrees with it. I certainly do not endorse that position by a parent unless the child were doing something reckless, but that clearly doesn’t apply here. It is a very difficult situation for a child, I hate seeing it happen. Unfortunately I have seen it far too often.</p>
<p>BME - I was searching the Case website for details about their merit based scholarships but I cannot find anything that talks about the conditions for them at all. What did Case tell you about your scholarship as far as keeping it for four years or anything else relevant?</p>
<p>I was focusing on this part that seems to directly speak to it.</p>
<p>
Her choice for which school, his choice as to what to pay for.</p>
<p>But it does occur to me that if his income was used to determine the need based FA at Tulane, then it is really somewhat disingenuous on his part to now say he won’t live up to that. Like I said, I really hate to see these situations.</p>
<p>Yes, I saw that part of the quote, FC, and it is inconsistent, but it sounds like BME’s dad is pretty controlling and trying to drive the decision. Sorry you are going through this, BME. </p>
<p>I didnt think that, unless a student was declared emancipated, that they could try to apply for need based aid without parents income (some non-custodial parent situations excepted).</p>
<p>That is another dilemma, of course. Once a student is out of high school the parents have no legal obligation to pay for college, yet schools insist on taking parents income and assets into account, which of course they have to. The vast majority of the time this is not an issue, but then there are cases like these that make a young person’s life difficult. At least she has a good option in Case, even if she thinks it isn’t the place for her. There are more than a few students out there whose parents refuse to help pay for college at all, and many more who will only pay up to a certain amount even if they can afford more, like only up to as much as the in-state school would cost. Not many options for those students either unless they get great scholarships.</p>
<p>Is this thread still going? My daughter is also trying to choose between Case and Tulane. She wants to study biological sciences but maybe not toward an MD. The question we both have is whether Tulane’s bio program has enough gravitas to position her for a top-ranked graduate program in 4 years. If she changes her mind mid course and wants to study history/humanities/political science or other, which would be the better place to be? BTW, she was offered Paul Tulane scholarship, but also pretty good $$ at Case.</p>
<p>Well, free tuition is hard to beat! But putting that aside since Case sounds like it is also affordable, I think either school will be absolutely fine for grad school preparation in biology or any related field. I did my undergrad in chemistry and was accepted into a top 10 grad school, in fact a top 5. Biology won’t be any different, frankly. Grad schools don’t look that much at where you went to school as long as it is accredited and the course work shows good knowledge of the field. Tulane is highly regarded. Put another way, if she sticks with biology and takes all the courses required for a major, throws in one or two grad level courses (fairly common among those that are targeting grad school rather than med school and easily done at Tulane), does at least a year of research with one of the profs (also very easily done at Tulane), and of course makes strong grades, no grad school in the country would be out of her reach.</p>
<p>This would be exactly the same at Case, I don’t think Tulane is at any advantage or disadvantage here, except possibly that doing high level research as an undergrad is very common and encouraged at Tulane, and not only at the uptown campus but also at the med school. What I mean is that undergrad biology, chemistry, biomedical engineering, and other relevant majors have the possibility of working with researchers at the med school as well as at the uptown campus, depending on which research seems more appealing to them. Obviously the uptown campus is much more convenient, but there are shuttles between the two on a regular basis. This kind of research opportunity might be equally available at Case, that I just don’t know.</p>
<p>Where Tulane really shines is in the ability to switch majors or double majoring. They make it very easy, and Tulane is very strong in the humanities areas. Because she has been accepted to Newcomb-Tulane College, and not just to a specific school within the College, she is free to major and/or minor in any subject she wants except architecture. That is the only one that requires a separate acceptance. Switching mid-stream is no more complicated than a single sided sheet of paper filed with the university. Generally speaking while there is always some catching up to do if that doesn’t happen until the end of sophomore year, she would most likely still be able to graduate in 4 years. Her science credits would fill out various distribution requirements, and presumably she wouldn’t be switching blind but would have taken some introductory level courses in whatever major she is switching to. Also, as a Paul Tulane winner, I bet she is coming in with a fair number of credits from AP tests.</p>
<p>In summary, for the undecided student I believe Tulane offers the ideal environment. As a top research institution and one of 60 some-odd members of the AAU, Tulane also offers preparation for grad school on par with any university.</p>
<p>Gracias amundo, FC. I didn’t mention that she plays sax and is an accredited yoga instructor. Somehow I can’t picture either on the crest of CWR. She was offered $$ at U. Miami, too; would your assessment be the same? (I’d hate to have to root for the 'Canes.)</p>
<p>Tulane also has an undergraduate public health major, and while I know you said she may not be interested in an MD, that is something that might be of interest to her.</p>
<p>Indeed, Miami and Tulane are probably more similar than Case and Tulane. They compete for students big time. One of the major differences with Miami is that the incoming class is almost twice the size of Tulane’s. I am not sure how accessible UM Medical is from Coral Gables, and what the relationship between the undergrads and the med school is regarding research opportunities. She would have to explore that.</p>
<p>Your D should look into Paterson dorm at Tulane. Known as the “wellness” dorm, I know they have programs for yoga, other forms of meditation, nutrition, etc. She could teach a class!</p>
<p>She has three great (!) choices where finances don’t appear to be an issue in the decision, which is a wonderful situation. Assuming she lives up to her academic potential, and of course she will, she has nothing to worry about regarding grad school or professional school if she attends any of these three or similar schools. Quite frankly, she should focus on which one she feels fits her best, based on visits or gut instinct. It isn’t easy, given that information and experience for those kinds of factors is always limited. But that’s the nature of the “game” here. If she wants a more “sciencey/engineering” atmosphere, Case is the choice. The other two are fine in these areas, but Case is the most focused on this area overall. If she wants a sports oriented atmosphere in student life, Miami obviously although Tulane might be exciting the next few years. If she wants the most unique city, of course it is Tulane and New Orleans. Academically it really is fairly close, with Tulane having the edge on ease of change, as was already mentioned.</p>