Help me narrow down my college list!

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I've finally come up with a list of schools I think I'd be happy at, but my university counselor at school only wants me to apply to 8 or 10. I'm really indecisive, and it was hard enough to get from 740284209448320 schools to 17... so basically, I need help.</p>

<p>I'm an academically undecided Swedish vegan atheist with an artistic streak who speaks three languages fluently and a fourth half-decently, shops equally often at thrift stores and at J. Crew, doesn't care for labels but leans to the moderate side of liberal, loves skiing, rafting, and random outdoors excursions and ruffle skirts and cute heels and getting all dressed up, listens to everything from the Shins to Elvis Costello to Deana Carter, and could subsist indefinitely on sunny days and good books and long walks and late-night conversations. I'm also a white "fake international" [legal US resident since '01, but in possession of an international visa] nonathlete nonlegacy in need of financial aid.</p>

<p>GPA: 6.3/7 at a grade-deflated private school
SAT I: 2270 (800CR/760M/710W)
French: 800
Literature: 750
Math IIC: 700
Biology-M: 680 (retaking?)
Chemistry: 650 (retaking?)</p>

<p>I'm an IB Diploma candidate; my higher levels are English A1, French A1, and chemistry, my standard levels are biology, history, and math, and my creative elective is journalism.</p>

<p>I'm the photography editor and News and Features editor of my school's newspaper, take photography classes outside of school three hours per week in addition to independent work (I'm sending a portfolio), have been riding horses for 10 years but not really competitively, tutor a freshman in chemistry, and do lots of miscellaneous art and writing, but not through any organized program. This summer summer I'm working as a counselor and assistant instructor at riding camp at my barn for 40 hours a week (and yes, that includes teaching actual riding lessons) and volunteering at a local hospital for 15 hours a week, then traveling to Sweden at the end of the summer to visit family and friends.</p>

<p>The List:
Amherst?
Brown
Bryn Mawr
Carleton
University of Chicago
Colgate
Dartmouth
Grinnell
Kenyon
Macalester
Middlebury
MIT
Pomona
Princeton?
Stanford
Scripps
Wellesley
Williams</p>

<p>Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance!</p>

2

<p>What do you want to study?</p>

<p>Do you want to be in a big city or a small town?</p>

<p>The schools are pretty different from each other.</p>

<p>How many people do you want in the school?</p>

3

<p>What do you want to study?
I'm not sure. I'm interested in anthropology, biology, English, environmental science, neuroscience, and... I don't even know. It changes.</p>

<p>Do you want to be in a big city or a small town?
I always used to think I was a city girl, but then I visited Middlebury and loved it. I've never lived anywhere that wasn't the capital of a country, so I think it would be interesting to live somewhere rural... at the same time, I wouldn't eliminate a school just because it's in a city.</p>

<p>How many people do you want in the school?
Smallish, but not tiny. A few thousand, I guess? My high school only has 200 students, so even a small (by college standards) LAC will probably feel huge to me.</p>

<p>Sorry I can't be more specific!</p>

4

<p>I would think you would have a very good shot at any school and that only Princeton and Stanford would be a reach for you, not that you would definitely get into every other listed school. Dartmouth, Colgate, Williams would be the most similar to Middlebury on your list. Applying early to either Princeton, Dartmouth, Williams would maximize your best chances.</p>

5

<p>Amherst - You'd probably really like it, if you can get in (you've got a real shot with your stats). It's about 1500 people, so quite small, but it's near Boston.
Brown - Not huge (~6000 people). In a fair size city but fairly close to New York and Boston. You've got a real shot there too and it's an amazing school (my personal favorite out of the Ivies).
Bryn Mawr - Safety. Very small. Very conservative. If you're anything near liberal I don't think you'd like it.
Carleton - Match, grade wise. Again, very small (less than 2000) and Minnesota isn't exactly the center of the world. It's far from big capital-style cities.
University of Chicago - Urban. I'd say a match grade wise. It's not a huge school, but being in a big city makes up for it.
Colgate - A bit bigger than some of the other schools you've mentioned. Just under 3000 people. I think it's pretty rural, and it'd be a match grade wise.
Dartmouth - Very rural and small (4000 people). It's not too far from the big cities like Boston and New York. Very prestigious. Match grade wise, but again, Ivies are not guaranteed for anyone.
Grinnell - Iowa. Enough said. This is about as secluded as you can get. There are more pigs than people in Iowa. It's a good school but you really have to be sure the rural thing is for you. If you get accepted you get a personal letter from the governor though. Very small. It would be a match grades wise though.
Kenyon - Match to safety, grades wise. Again, very small and rural. Not convinced a liberal, even moderate, would fit in there.
Macalester - Amazing school. It's very small, very liberal, very activist, near the two biggest cities of Minnesota. Amazing amazing school!
Middlebury - Match grade wise. Vermont is quite secluded, so keep that in mind. And it's a small rural school.
MIT - Super reach for anyone and only really worth it if you want to go into tech I think. I mean, if you get in, then it's great, but it's really a tech school. Keep that in mind.
Pomona - Very different from the others on the list (it's in sunny California). It's small, but there's several other colleges around it.
Princeton - Under 5000 people. Ivy. You're in the grade range so give it a shot if it interests you. It's hard to say a bad word about the Ivies, but it's just down to what people prefer really.
Stanford - Great school in science especially, but really in everything. Also in California, so very different from the others on your list, apart from Pomona. It's near San Francisco, while not being a very big school (~7000 people)
Scripps - TINY! Not even 1000 people! But also in the same bunch with Pomona, it's a cluster of colleges. Very good liberal arts schools, but very very small! And hot!
Wellesley - Women's school only. Keep that in mind... Near Boston.
Williams - You're in the grade range. Very rural, very small (under 2000 people).</p>

<p>This list of school is very different. You should first decide on the approximate size. There is a big difference between being in a school of 800 people (this is supposed to be college - moving away from home, meeting HUNDREDS of new people. I'm afraid you won't meet very diverse people in a school that only has about 800 people like Scripps.) and a school that has 6000.</p>

<p>I would say with your stats and what you seem to like (judging by your list, I could be very wrong), I would say the schools you would probably enjoy the most would be : Amherst, Brown, Univ of Chicago, Colgate, Dartmouth, Macalester, Stanford.</p>

<p>I think the schools you should take off would be Bryn Mawr, Scripps, maybe Carlton, Grinnell, Kenyon, MIT (unless you're considering engineering or tech major).</p>

<p>Everything I just said could be complete and utter cr*p as I don't know you or what you like, but this is just my opinion, based on the info you've written down.</p>

6

<p>i guess CC has a new Fiske!!</p>

7

<p>I just want to comment on newfoundgirlie's post re: Scripps. While Scripps itself is on the smaller side (875 students, approx. 220 per class), it is part of a consortium with four other LACs and a smallish grad school (Claremont Graduate University). All of the schools are literally across the street from each other - Scripps is across the street from CMC in one direction, Mudd in another, and Pitzer in yet another. Pomona is really close - about a five minute walk from the opposite end of Scripps campus. The total population of the colleges is over 5000. Claremont is about 45 minutes outside of downtown LA, so you are in a smaller suburb with access to a large city. I actually think that Scripps would be a good safety for you and they also offer half-tuition merit scholarships for their top applicants (you must submit your application by Nov. 1st to be considered). I think that if you show a lot of interest you would be an admit and probably a finalist for scholarships.</p>

8

<p>Thanks for the replies! newfoundgirlie, thank you for your detailed post. :)</p>

<p>stickypenguin, you're right about Scripps; the consortium and the merit scholarships are two of the reasons I think it might be a good safety. On its own it would've felt too small and limiting, but the possibility of interacting with students at the other colleges expands the social options quite a bit (and yes, that includes--but is not limited to--proximity to individuals of the male gender category ;)).</p>

<p>Outside of the consortium dynamic, I'd probably choose a coed school over a women's college, but I'd definitely rather go to, say, Bryn Mawr or Wellesley than a university in Sweden (that would be my last resort). Both are excellent schools, obviously, and given my stats, I have a decent shot at getting in.</p>

<p>As for MIT, I probably won't go into engineering, but there's a pretty good chance that I'll do something science-related. Based on visiting and what I know about it (from guidebooks, CC, the blogs, and close friends of the family who went there--the husband is an architect and the wife a chemical engineer) it just seems like such an amazing place to go to college. It's not an obvious match, but for some reason I'm just attached to it, and for some reason I also think it works. I probably wouldn't get in, but you never know.</p>

<p>My concern about Princeton is mostly about the eating clubs, and whether they create an elitist social atmosphere on campus... but of course that's purely hypothetical, seeing as the chances of my getting in are (as are anyone else's) infinitesimally small.</p>

<p>I loved Middlebury when I visited. I think I'd be really happy there.</p>

<p>As you can see, I'm attached to every single one of these schools for one reason or the other... I haven't talked about all of them here, but each of them has pretty specific reasons for being on the list, which is why I'm having such a hard time eliminating any.</p>

<p>Again, thanks for your help!</p>

9

<p>A 6.3 GPA out of 7!??! Now that's a new one for me...how is your school's GPA out of 7? How do they weight them?</p>

<p>For us to accurately assess your GPA, we need to know what it is UNweighted. That is, calculate it as such:</p>

<p>A+'s, A's, and A-'s = 4
B+'s, B's, and B-'s = 3
C+'s, C's, and C-'s = 2
D+'s, D's, and D-'s = 1
F = 0</p>

<p>DO NOT ADD ANY EXTRA POINTS FOR HONORS, AP, OR IB CLASSES!!! I REPEAT, DO NOT ADD ANY EXTRA POINTS FOR ANY CLASSES, NO MATTER HOW ADVANCED THEY ARE! EVEN IF THEY WERE AT A COMMUNITY COLLEGE...DO NOT ADD ANY EXTRA POINTS FOR ANY CLASSES!</p>

<p>(not yelling, just emphasizing).</p>

<p>Once we know your GPA out of 4, we'll have a better picture. Anything above a 3.75 makes you competitive for the Ivy League and top LACs. Unweighted GPA's below that usually still qualify the applicant for acceptance, but he or she is at a disadvantage.</p>

10

<p>My school uses the 7-point IB scale. It's impossible to numerically "convert" my GPA to the 4.0 scale, but for comparison, a 6 is equivalent to an A-, and a 7 to an A+. A 6.3 would be a high A- or a low A. Keep in mind that I do go to private school, and it's much harder to get a 7 here than it is to get an A at a public or less competitive private school. Anything over a 6.0 is basically a respectable average, and even then, we've had people get into schools like Brown and Stanford with 5.9's.</p>

11

<p>One thing that I am noticing (looking back at your original post) is that the majority of schools on your list are both reaches and very similar. Williams, Amherst, Pomona, and Carleton are all similar, but you may not need to apply to all four. Williams and Carleton are pretty rural (though Carleton is only 45 minutes from the Twin Cities of St. Paul and Minneapolis). Amherst and Pomona are both parts of consortiums and less rural. I'm sure you know all of this, but you may be able to narrow schools down by size and location and be able to eliminate some schools that way. Four of the schools really stick out to me as outliers - MIT, Princeton, and Chicago. All urban, larger, and have extensive graduate programs in addition to the undergraduate college (Princeton is a slight exception, as their grad programs are relatively small). Dartmouth and Brown also have graduate programs but fit in more with the traditional LAC education and undergrad focus and with the rest of your choices. The environment at many of the schools is also different, with Williams/Amherst/Midd/Colgate on the "preppy" side, Grinnell/Kenyon/Macalester/Pomona more of "crunchy granola" variety, Wellesley/Scripps/Bryn Mawr as the women's colleges, and the the Ivies+Stanford. I think you need to figure out what you really want for your college experience and when that happens you'll be able to more easily narrow down your choices. Have you had a chance to visit any of the schools besides Midd? You may find your preferences change in one direction or another with more visits.</p>

12

<p>Of the schools on the list, I've visited Amherst, Brown, Bryn Mawr, Dartmouth, Middlebury, MIT, Wellesley, and Williams. I've visited 16 schools in total; I might be able to make it to Princeton over a long weekend in the fall, and maybe Stanford, but that wouldn't be until Thanksgiving. I won't be able to visit any of the Midwestern schools.

[quote]
The environment at many of the schools is also different, with Williams/Amherst/Midd/Colgate on the "preppy" side, Grinnell/Kenyon/Macalester/Pomona more of "crunchy granola" variety

[/quote]

That's really what I'm having trouble with, and what I tried to describe in the first post. I don't see myself as EITHER "preppy" OR "crunchy granola"... I have traits of both and don't fit comfortably into either category.

I do like my granola, and I guess you could call me "quirky", but at the same time, I do own a Vera Bradley purse and a decent selection of polos. :p</p>

<p>At this point, it's not really about deciding what I would like<a href="in%20terms%20of%20size,%20location,%20and%20so%20on">/i</a>, because I like every school I listed for its own reasons, and I honestly think each of them could be a good fit in *some way... at this point I think it's more about finding things not to like so that I'll have reasons to cut some of them from the list, while at the same time finding a good balance between reaches, matches, and "safeties" (in quotes because as an international I can't actually consider any US school to be a safety).</p>

<p>I also don't think I even really know what I want out of college aside from the essential (a) academics, (b) friends, and (c) getting the hell away from my dysfunctional family. So that's something I'll need to consider.</p>

<p>Again, thanks for all your suggestions. :)</p>

13

<ul>
<li><p>Claremont sounds like a good match for you, and previous posters have been correct about Scripps (it's very small, but is also part of a 7 school consortium totaling 5000+ undergrads and about 7000 students, giving it--and all of the Claremont schools, really--the very weird but great feeling of being simultaneously small and large). From the sound of your original post, both Pomona and Scripps fit well with your personality and interests.</p></li>
<li><p>The only very obvious stand-out that I see on your list is MIT. If you're looking to pare down, that would be the first one I'd recommend taking off. Your chem/bio/math SAT2 scores are your lowest and you don't seem to have a lot of expressed EC interest in math/science. Rather, your interests seem STRONGER in other directions. This is not at all to say that you look like a weak math/science student. Far from it! Just that it doesn't look like you'd find any sort of a match at MIT. Personally, MIT was on my list, also, and if I'd gotten in, I don't think I would have been able to turn it down. For that reason, I count NOT getting in as a HUGE blessing. I'm sure it's a truly fantastic place for many people, but I don't think it's the place for anyone saying "eh...I do a lot of writing, art, languages...but I guess I might want to do science." Only offering this since you're trying to cut your list down.</p></li>
<li><p>Apply to as many schools as you want. If you don't mind paying the application fees and filling out the applications, then it's ultimately your choice. But it is true that many of the schools on your list are very similar and yet there's not a LOT of obvious criteria to the schools. Spend some time thinking hard about geographic preference, size preference, co-ed/women preference, and so forth. If you think that you don't have a lot of interest in a women's college, for example, then there's no reason to have that many on the list. This might help you a little bit.</p></li>
<li><p>I'm not familiar with a few of the schools on your list, so I could be incorrect here, and you certainly have great stats, so this isn't a personal criticism...but make sure you're applying to at least one TRUE safety school. Not just a school that you meet/surpass the stats for, but one with a high admission rate, maybe with a tendency to accept a lot of students from your school, or so forth. A very obvious, "worst case scenario because admissions is so largely a crapshoot" safety.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>Looks like a great list...tough to cut schools because they all have definite strengths and you have such well rounded interests. Good luck!</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
Your chem/bio/math SAT2 scores are your lowest and you don't seem to have a lot of expressed EC interest in math/science. I don't think it's the place for anyone saying "eh...I do a lot of writing, art, languages...but I guess I might want to do science." Only offering this since you're trying to cut your list down.

[/quote]

I understand your reasoning, but that's not exactly what I said. My extracurriculars are centered around art, writing, and so on, but I do have a strong academic interest in the sciences (FWIW, I was supposed to assist in research in a neuroscience lab this summer, but due to department politics it didn't end up working out). I'm probably retaking the chem and bio SAT II's, because when I took them in June I'd had an incredibly stressful week at school, was completely sleep-deprived, hadn't studied, and basically wasn't paying attention.</p>

<p>I don't know why I try so hard to justify this. I think you make many good points, and you may very well be right in that it wouldn't be such a good fit for me... I think a part of me wants to be the kind of person who could thrive at MIT, because it's such an amazing school and I really do like it a lot, and I think it's still possible that I could become that kind of person, but that right now I'm still too indecisive in terms of my academic interests. Part of it is also that the family friends I mentioned earlier have been soooo encouraging about it and telling me about their experiences and how much they think I'd like it. I know that's not a good basis for decision-making, but I'd feel a bit guilty about not even applying after all their help. And I definitely am still interested... ahh, I don't know. Maybe grad school, if i do decide to go that route?

[quote]
Apply to as many schools as you want. If you don't mind paying the application fees and filling out the applications, then it's ultimately your choice.

[/quote]

This is true. Part of this whole issue is that I'm just so nonconfrontational and don't want to argue with my GC about it... I'm inclined to apply to more than 8-10 schools if only because as an "international" who needs financial aid, I can't take anything for granted, neither in terms of admissions nor in terms of aid. 17 is stretching it, though! You made a good point about the women's colleges; I think the one I'm most likely to cut is Wellesley, based on my impressions of it and Bryn Mawr when I visited.

[quote]
I'm not familiar with a few of the schools on your list, so I could be incorrect here, and you certainly have great stats, so this isn't a personal criticism...but make sure you're applying to at least one TRUE safety school. Not just a school that you meet/surpass the stats for, but one with a high admission rate, maybe with a tendency to accept a lot of students from your school, or so forth. A very obvious, "worst case scenario because admissions is so largely a crapshoot" safety.

[/quote]

That's a really good point. My absolute last resort is going back to Europe, but I really don't want it to come to that. The only problem here is that even an admissions safety may not be a financial safety, because the less selective schools with smaller endowments usually don't offer as much aid to internationals... there's also the fact that my parents have categorically refused to pay (even with aid, given our income, we'd probably have to scrape together ~$10,000/year) for a school that isn't "good enough". My dad isn't unreasonable; it's not "Ivy or else" (I'm not even considering Harvard or Yale), he's fine with Middlebury and some of the other LACs, but I don't know what the limits are for what he'd consider to be "worth it". Aside from that, I unfortunately have yet to find an American school that has a high acceptance rate and guarantees need-based aid for internationals, possibly supplemented by merit aid. Since I'm not a US citizen I don't have a state school to fall back on.</p>

<p>You've given me a lot to think about... thanks for your help!</p>

15

<p>Hey, I'm actually in the same boat as you and I'm really confused about what to do about it.</p>

<p>Maybe if you find a real safety you could let me know, because as far as I know, we're pretty much lost.</p>

<p>Even with 2400 SAT I and three perfect SAT IIs, we could still be rejected from some place.</p>

<p>I think the idea that a lot of colleges will just reject you if they don't have money for you is kind of scary, don't you?</p>

<p>Anyway, I like the list that you made already but I second the suggestions of others. For example, you're either the type of person that wants a woman's college or you're not. Not being that extreme would probably make it hard for you to be happy there... just a thought.</p>

<p>Anyway, I'll leave you because those guys pretty much said it all. Good luck to you.</p>

<p>Oh, and looking at your stats=envy.</p>

16

<p>I think that you would really like the small liberal arts schools on your list. Amherst, Williams, Pomona, Carleton, Wellesley, etc. You would be a great candidate for all of those schools and they would allow you the flexibility to figure out what you want to major in. I think you would also fit in well and do well at Brown. Kenyon and Grinell would definitely be safeties for you and you would probably receive merit aid from both schools. Even though a previous poster said it would be pointless to apply to Amherst, Williams, Pomona and Carleton, I strongly disagree. Each of these schools has a different feel. You really should try to visit/do overnight at some of these schools in order to really figure out what kind of environment you would like. When I visited Pomona, and I am biased in their favor, they seemed to have a complete variety of kids from the crunchy granola type to the preppy kids.
Furthermore, in terms of international aid, I would look into Williams quite a bit. They have an amazing financial aid program and I believe they are one of the only schools that is need blind to internationals.</p>

17

<p>I don't want to add to your list here, but one suggestion might be looking at 1-2 honors programs at schools that aren't on the whole as high of quality. Also, there are some schools that have almost 100% acceptance rates but can be a surprisingly great education.</p>

<p>I have a friend at Calvin College, for example (not suggesting, just illustrating), who's brilliant. No one really understood why she was going to a school with a 98-99% acceptance rate. She's in a challenging program, though, and definitely not breezing through. According to her, the school's philosophy is kind of "easy in, tough to stay." Perhaps the type of thing to look into...she was able to have a true safety, get a ton of aid, and still a really great education.</p>

18

<p>you provided very detailed criteria in what you are looking for, which is terrific.
i have two school suggestions for you: connecticut college and vassar. both are populated with bright, liberal, active, outdoorsy students, yet who wear jcrew and love their designer purses. you have a ton of reach schools (reaches for everyone, not just you: amherst, brown, dartmouth, mit, princeton, stanford, williams), and some of the schools just stick out to me as not really fitting into what you are looking for, particularly: MIT, chicago, princeton.
great research though, good luck!</p>

19

<p>newfoundgirlie, </p>

<p>The comment that Bryn Mawr is conservative is probably one of the most absurd statements I have heard in a while. You really need to do some research before you start posting. As far as selectivity is concerned, it is roughly equal to Kenyon, Macalester, Grinell, and Scripps</p>

20

<p>cameliasinensis, are you saying your school does not hand out grades, but instead a number on a scale of 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0? At any rate, it sounds like your GPA translates to a 3.7, and at a competitive school like yours, that's probably good. I'd say you have good chances, but you've already gotten help in this thread.</p>