@MYOS1634: No need to capitalize (scream). It’s his favorite subject and he’s earning an “A” at a university. His status of 3.7 GPA would be fine except that it’s a low-level high school and that’s considered by college admissions. I think he will succeed in life whether or not he becomes a physician because he is smart, independent, and motivated. But you can’t put him in the same boat as students from college prep schools who are in the highest range of SATs/ACTs (or earn perfect scores), plus, took 10AP classes with GPAs of 4.0+. I know some of those who can’t even get accepted into med school. He just doesn’t have the academic experience of juggling all that. Doesn’t mean he can’t rise to the occasion, but he will need assistance and it will be difficult. He’s better off not competing with the super elite students - there are articles online about minorities struggling at elite colleges.
At this point, visiting the campuses and viewing the academic support system is critical, as well as speaking with minorities at those schools, who are pre-meds (counselors at the colleges can arrange that). Financial aid is also important. For med school, he can have the military assist in his tuition, then pay back by serving time after med school graduation.
I also think he should choose a place that has a fair amount of African-Americans because our good friend is African-American and an M.D., and as academically successful (super smart) and likeable he is, his best move was leaving an all-white environment and moving back to a diverse environment where they hired him as chair of his department.
In his original posting, OP asked us: “And please, be as honest and brutal as possible.” Walking in ignorantly to a situation will lessen the chance for success. I’m pulling for his success.
^my keyboard made me scream but it wasn’t my intention.
I agree that checking out the support system is critical.
But overall, the colleges that work with Questbridge or Posse have a superb support system - their resources just can’t be compared to those of a state university. Beside specific support systems, the tippy top schools all have 5 to 6 week summer programs to bring lower-performing school graduates “up to speed”, with all expenses paid for (unlike many state schools); if he applies through Posse, he’ll have a network of peers and advisers; with Questbridge, there’ll be support too. Top colleges admit few students, but each one they admit they want to see graduate and they will do their utmost to make sure each of them succeeds. You’re right that the challenges are huge… which is why top colleges want to see grit and drive when tehy select these students - to make sure that when faced with difficulties, they won’t give up. His odds of graduating from a top college are actually higher than from an easier college. Sure, it’ll be difficult academically - but except for kids who currently attend TJ, Choate, PA, Stuyvesant, or Harvard-Westlake, it’ll be difficult for most. At least at top schools he’ll have the summer program to make up the difference. And if there’s one thing OP has shown so far, it’s drive and determination. (To give you another perspective, a 26-28 at a school where the average is 15-17 is considered equivalent to a 34-36 at a high-performing school in terms of achievement, mastery, and potential.)
As long as he knows that the college that selected him did so because he can succeed, and seeks help when needed, he’ll be fine.
As for premed… a lot of talented high school juniors plan on medicine or engineering, and there’s a special pressure applied on URM/immigrant students to go into these fields. It’s also as of now a common, uninformed choice, in that many lower-income kids don’t know of many careers and jobs that require talent and schooling, but they know they want to learn and make money, so “doctor” sounds just like what they want. it’s also the situation for most middle class kids. Making it as a premed is tough for most students, and most freshmen give up after they discover they enjoy lots of other things and can be successful in lots of other fields. So I don’t really worry about Op’s premed plans. They may turn into something he does pursue as a college junior, but like 80% students what he thought in high school and who he is, what he likes, what he plans on doing… sophomore year in college is likely to have changed considerably. For now, OP needs to apply widely.
Depends on which top college. Elite colleges like HYP do provide a lot of support and have the orientation that they DON’T want their admits to flunk out so there’s plenty of academic support so long as one seeks it out or with some Profs/departments or LAC-like campuses like P…they will seek you out.
Some tips which are applicable to all students:
Seek out tutoring/office hours from the first week onwards and make sure you thoroughly understand the material covered in class with the Prof/TAs. While asking other classmates in the classes can help, be discerning in finding classmates who actually have a clue about the class. If one's not careful, asking other classmates could easily end up being the blind leading the blind.
Followup to #1. Don't wait until the middle or worse, end of semester to do #1. Start early and go often, especially if you need clarification for class material.
Another benefit to going to office hours early in the semester is the chance to interact with your Profs outside of class and possibly finding some mentors who could help you in your academic career and just as importantly, help your with future plans such as letter of recommendation for grad school/jobs.
Meet and get to know your academic advisor in your college and/or if you already declared your major, in your department. Make sure he/she's right for you in terms of helpfulness in advising, accessibility, and personality. If there are issues with any of those, there's nothing wrong with trying to find a different more suitable advisor.
Make sure he/she knows your major, pre-med, and college distribution/core requirements and double-check his/her advice with what’s in your academic bulletin/guidebook. This is more of an issue with larger universities, but I’ve had a few friends who ended up having their graduations delayed because their advisors weren’t knowledgeable about the then current distribution/core requirements for their college/division. It’s also an issue which isn’t necessarily limited to public universities.
Take advantage of study skills workshops offered at your college. For college classmates who had weak academic backgrounds or struggled through a weak area like math or writing a literary analysis paper, such workshops were an academic lifesaver.
Sit in the first few rows in class to ensure you are better able to pay attention and more importantly, won't be able to zone out or worse, fall asleep without arousing attention from Prof. This will also help avoid being distracted by less attentive students sleeping or goofing on their computers/smartphones.
When in class, SHUT OFF any smartphones and computer applications except whatever programs you need for notetaking/class.
If the Prof/instructor lecture style is such he/she is liable to put anyone to sleep, especially in a morning class, make it an extra point to get enough sleep to be wide awake and just as/more important...figure out a system for yourself to engage with the class material despite the Prof. My system was to tie class material or the Prof/instructor to the most absurd and funniest situations in my head so it's memorable enough to stick in my mind. Other classmates tied it to popular songs/groups they liked or whatever works to make it memorable.
When in doubt, err on the side of allocating more time to studying rather than less. However, make sure the time is being used effectively and one thing I should have done more of...take short breaks every so often.
Even with #9, make time for ECs, exercise, and social activities with friends and classmates. Not only will you get more out of your undergrad experience, it's also a great way to relieve stress and build a social network which could help you in the future.
Many people feel sleepy in the early afternoon (traditional siesta time in some countries). If this applies to you, you may want to select class times other than early afternoon, if you have a choice between different times for the class.
8 or 9 am classes and early afternoon are the worst times depending on student. For students like you described, scheduling classes other than those periods are optimal. However, one may not always be able to do so due to classes only being scheduled during those suboptimal periods or other scheduling conflicts(i.e. job).
Another thing which helps with early morning/afternoon drowsiness is to not eat too heavily right before such periods though YMMV. This was a reason why some classmates avoided eating breakfast or brought their lunches to their noon/early afternoon classes.
In the latter case, the post-meal slump won’t kick in until the noon/early afternoon class is over.
He mentioned applying to OSU, Alabama State, Miami, and Howard. These are quality schools, but they aren’t the “elite schools” that many on this site focus on. At many of the schools, his test scores are above 75th percentile, and his background with A’s in dual enrollment is probably stronger than most students. Maybe he would find pre-med courses difficult. Maybe he would find them easier than most students. Pre-med isn’t always cutthroat, with only the top of the top of the class who get all A’s being accepted into med school. My personal experience in pre-med courses was students often study together and try help each other succeed, rather than competing with one another for the top of the curve, although this likely varies at different schools. Many who don’t get all A’s also are successful. Among the MD Applicant members who did their undergraduate at Howard, the two members with the lowest undergrad GPA (2.9 and 3.3) were accepted to med school, as were the two with the highest undergrad GPA (3.9 and 4.0) . Across the full US, most African American med school applicants with a ~3.0+ GPA and average MCAT get accepted to med school.
In my opinion it’s early to worry about possibly changing fields, but if you want a degree to fall back on, there are many with better job prospects than biology. Biology has a relatively low starting salary and relatively high unemployment rate (without grad degrees). Of course one also needs to consider personal interests, rather than just career practicality.
Just reading this thread for the first time. OP, I hope you are proud of yourself – what a series of accomplishments!
Much great advice has been shared. I just want to add that getting into medical school is incredibly difficult these days. Going to a highly selective college may make it more difficult to earn the type of grades you will need to get into medical school. At the opening ceremony of an ivy league college I attended, the president wisely, and humorously, told the crowd that while virtually all of the students entering the new class were in the top 10% of their high school class" he could assure us that only 10% of these students would be in the top 10% of their new class. Thus, if you find yourself with an option to attend a tippy top school, this is something you may want to consider. Best of luck to you!
I just wanted to give everyone an update on what happened with college decisions! I applied to a lot of colleges, so I will only list the ones I am heavily considering. I still need your opinions from this point also. I am going to make a pro and con list to make sure that I pick the right college. Here we go:
Amherst (full ride)
OSU (Morrill Scholar + Honors program)
Dartmouth (full ride)
These are the three that I am considering. OSU is on here because I am thinking of the advice giving earlier about not hopping in fire too quickly.
I am conflicted with Amherst and Dartmouth. Each school is allowing me to visit, so I will have a feel of each college before making a decision.
Basically, I want to know the good and bad about each school. I am going to do some independent research on each also. I want to make sure I make the right decision. I am interested in hearing all of your opinions.
I really don’t care about the setting (Urban vs Rural)
Premed
I would like to do research sometime in undergrad
Study abroad? Maybe.
Thank you all in advance!
*I will list all the schools I was accepted into just in case one of you recommends it.
OSU
Howard
Alabama State
Akron
Miami-OH
University of Miami
Kentucky State University
Bellermine
University of Dayton
UC-Davis
UC-Santa Barbara
Amherst
Colby
Dartmouth
I know that I applied to a lot of schools, but I didn’t know who would accept or reject me.
Hey there! Seen you around on a lot of threads here! I realize you got into the schools that waitlisted or rejected me (oh lawd) lol! CONGRATS MAN! Also, int’l here.
My advice? Dartmouth has a better Pre-med tracking than does Amherst. Neither is necessarily a won over the other and you would have research opportunities at both. However, by virtue of its standing and link to larger research programs at its graduate and other graduate schools, Dartmouth gets the edge over Amherst and were in your shoes this would be my decision.
TO THE DETRACTORS: Don’t mind them. Go to a school that promises to challenge you. You would NOT have been admitted to these schools if the admission committee had even the slightest doubt that you could cope! N doubt youll have your work cut out for you but you have aptly shown that you can and will rise to the challenge
BEST OF LUCK BRO, MAKE THE MOST OF IT.
@jalaquan - Congrats, yay!! Can you look at Amherst and Dartmouth for offices of minority outreach? Can you speak to people in BSU or equivalent there? I think you’ll do great at any of your options, but it might be good to know strengths or differences before you pick and enroll.
hm, Emmaspirant, care to elaborate or quote sources?
By any metric I’m aware of, both are extraordinarily successful at helping their premed students (who enroll in a wide variety of majors) getting admitted to med schools.
In fact, Amherst’s Guide for Premedical Students is pretty much THE reference on the subject. https://www.amherst.edu/campuslife/careers/act/gradstudy/health/guide/part1
Congratulations! I’m glad your hard work is paying off for you.
My thoughts about choosing which school to attend:
First, pick a school that is offering you a full ride (I know Amherst and Dartmouth are, but idk if others are).
Second, I’d like to suggest that you investigate what sort of support programs the schools offer. Since you’re coming from an under-achieving high school, if you attend a “top” college, it’s likely that your college classmates will have experienced a higher level of coursework than what you had the opportunity to take. For example, you may be in a Chem I class where everyone else has already taken AP Chem – you’d be learning the material for the first time, but for the others, it would be a review. The pace could be very fast. And, it could be a similar situation for each of your courses. The academic support available to you could be crucial to your success. (I’ve heard that Dartmouth has good academic support, but I don’t really know).
Also, try fretfulmother ‘s advice – good ideas.
You seem like an amazing young man. Best wishes in your college adventure!
Regarding Dartmouth versus Amherst, what do you think about fraternities and sororities? At Dartmouth, two thirds of eligible students join them, so they may be a somewhat overbearing presence if you are not interested. At Amherst, students are prohibited from joining them (a recent somewhat controversial decision, although fraternities were previously unrecognized campus groups that attracted only about 10% of male students anyway).
Amherst does have cross registration with four other schools, including a large research university, so it may offer some additional course selection options in more esoteric areas. However, pre-med courses are common and should be readily available at any of the schools you have been admitted to.
One difference to also consider is academic calenders. Amherst’s academic year is structured into 2 main academic semesters whereas Dartmouth is structured on quarters with each term being around 10 weeks long as opposed to 14-15 week semesters.
Some students prefer a comparatively longer slower pacing of a 14-15 week semester and feel a 10 week quarter is too rushed.
On the other hand, others like some cousins who attended Caltech or UCLA preferred 10 week quarters as they felt semesters dragged out courses too long. One also liked the fact he could “pack more courses” into each year(12 per year on quarters versus 8-10 per year on semesters) All comes down to individual preference.
Also, Dartmouth undergrads are required to spend 1 summer quarter on campus unless things have changed.
but it wasn’t my intention.