<p>I have a friend who was a pottery major. She now makes a nice living as an art teacher in a high school. </p>
<p>What seems like “selling out” to your daughter now may, in fact, one day become her career. Life looks different when you are paying all the bills.</p>
<p>She can do lots of things with art: art therapy (including working with kids, psychiatric patients, chronically ill etc.), education, design, marketing, museums, arts administration, gallery, etc. But having a bachelor’s in art is like having a bachelor’s in anything: you have access to any job that is posted with the requirement for a bachelor’s degree.</p>
<p>College level education, including art school, does not always match up with major anyway.</p>
<p>I would relax and support her and encourage her to enjoy these years as well as work hard.</p>
<p>Honestly, the happiest kids I know are the ones at art school. And they all seem to do pretty well supporting themselves one way or the other, no different, or perhaps better off, than many other graduates.</p>
<p>OP,</p>
<p>My unemployed, rising college sophomore, wanna-be writer isn’t doing all that much writing this summer either and I share some of the concerns for him that you have with your daughter. But, while I’ve heard plenty of the “writers need to live and breath writing” stuff, I’ve also heard about how much effort some successful writers have gone to in order to be able to write–like this article </p>
<p><a href=“Why Writers Belong Behind Bars - The New York Times”>Why Writers Belong Behind Bars - The New York Times;
<p>So I’m not sure its a kiss of death if a 19 year old can’t manage the self discipline needed to be productive. He is also a little burned out from the first year of college and hasn’t had this much unstructured free time in years–so isn’t quite there yet with how to manage it. </p>
<p>But if he gets to the end of the summer with nothing to show for it, I’m pretty sure he will regret, and probably won’t need me to tell him that he needs to start considering plan B.</p>
<p>OP, your D sounds determined to take her own path. I do not believe her degree will be a waste. She may not take step A to step B; her path may be more circuitous, but being immersed in painting, as she is now, will inform many related work-spheres in the future. To me, you should just make it clear to her that you have reservationions in terms of career, but that you support her right to create her own life, and let her know exactly what your financial limits are - in other words, if she wants to get a degree in nursing or engineering in a few years, would you finance that or not? She is young and may change her goal, but it would be best if that comes from her, not a sense of being forced, which will just cause bitterness.</p>
<p>You say you’re “ok with the art school and the painting major in general.” That makes it sound as if you’d continue to pay for her school if she just told you that she had some more realistic plan for making money when she graduates. In other words, all she has to do is figure out a good lie to tell you. If that’s really true, I would continue to support her financially, give her my verbal support, and give her a chance to figure out on her own that she’s not cut out to be a gallery artist. The more you try to get it across to her, the more resistant she will be to the idea, so backing off is really the only viable move anyway.</p>
<p>I tend to think you’re right that she’s not going to make it as a gallery artist, based on what you say. I also think there’s a good chance that her professors and/or classmates will provide some kind of reality check. If not, either you or she will be proven wrong when she tries to support herself as a gallery artist and then resorts to a job that just pays the bills while she devotes the rest of her time to painting. And really, if she ends up being happy as a waitress/painter and choosing not to use her other skills to secure a job that pays more, would that really be such an awful outcome?</p>
<p>In a few months (when it isn’t so obvious that it’s in response to her insistence that she won’t need to work when she becomes a painter) you can introduce the idea that there will be things you’ll stop paying for at the end of her sophomore year and even more things you’ll stop paying for at the end of her junior year, and that once she graduates she will face a deadline at which all financial support will stop. She can either get a job, find another patron, or do without. She may test you to see whether you’ll step in once her situation is “desperate” enough, but if you hold firm she’ll probably end up getting a job. It is not as if she will have no options at all when she graduates. It’s just that she intends not to exercise any of them.</p>
<p>But no matter what else you should do, you should be verbally and emotionally supportive of her intention to become a painter, because anything else will provide her with a motive to dig herself in even further. Just start making sure, a few months from now, that she understands that extending your verbal and emotional support doesn’t mean you’re committed to providing financial support past graduation. Right now she thinks “independence” means being given the money to do whatever she wants. She’s got 3 years to learn that “independence” means not needing anyone else to give her money in order for her to do what she wants, and IMO that’s the lesson you should be (subtly) promoting.</p>
<p>Thanks so much to all for the posts and yes, I get the general idea. Set financial boundries and let her figure the rest out on her own even if it’s killing me to watch her make what I think are mistakes and to be unhappy. She’s the one that’s going to have to figure out what she needs to do to be happy and what she untilmately needs to do to succeed. First step, give her a budget and let her start to learn what managing her own life really means. Time for someone to grow up a bit.</p>
<p>Thank you for laying it out in a nice concise order (that’s how my mind works) My job appears to be to start setting more distinct financial boundaries and guidelines. I guess I have to be more patient in waiting for her to really start grasping the reality of what it takes to really support herself in this world for the long run. I know I sound tough but the reality is my daughter has always worked hard of her own accord, rarely had to be told no (mostly because she was realistic in her expectations and what she asked for) and seemed mature until this past year… I guess I just got sideswiped by her new found idealistic views and need to let her make her own mistakes. I’ll work on my patience :)</p>
<p>Hi mcmom123, I’ve skimmed the responses so forgive me if I’m repeating someone. I am a painter and also teach painting to college students. My life has been a struggle, but a fascinating journey. I have one piece of advice; she must go to graduate school and get an MFA. With an MFA she will be able to teach at public universities, and gallery owners will look at her with respect. Also, she’ll need to go to a school that has classes in professional business practices, painters need good marketing plans.</p>
<p>I got my first art degree at a state institution that taught me nothing about selling my artwork, in fact money was a dirty word! Phooey!!! Most of my classmates graduated with BFAs and never made art again. I went on to get a graduate degree at a professional art school. There I learned that an artist had better be able to make money or they’ll have to give it up, AND there are skills to learn about selling your work.</p>
<p>I’ve made a fair living selling my paintings in galleries. The unfortunate truth is that when the economy crashed so did many galleries and artists’ sales suffered a lot, including mine. However, I was able to go back to teaching, that has always been my fallback when times get tough. I haven’t been a waitress since I got that MFA.</p>
<p>No art isn’t about money, but you must make money at it to keep going. That should be part of your daughters education. I wish her a very fulfilling life!</p>
<p>@OP </p>
<p>Have you actually seen anything that your daughter has painted? If so do you think it is any good? Do you think someone would actually buy something that she has painted? You have never really said anything about whether she has any talent as a painter. Is there something in her background that suggests unique talent and ability as a painter? While the odds are certainly against it, there is always the possibility that when she does paint something it is really very good and a piece of art that would sell for a very high price.</p>
<p>Surely OP didn’t expect her daughter to go to art school and major in biology. Having said yes to art school in the first place, one can’t suddenly change the rules and decide not to pay because one doesn’t like the fact that one’s child chooses to major in painting. Life is filled with twists and turns–how many of us actually earn our livings doing whatever we studied in college–particularly those of us from liberal arts backgrounds? Moreover, the journey from adolescence to adulthood is indeed a journey; some things people have to discover for themselves, and all the advice in the world, however well meaning, will not help. Kids don’t learn to walk without skinning their knees.</p>
<p>To OP,
For many artist, even the great ones, got rich and famous only after their death. My Niece is also studying as a painter in of the the greatest Art Schools in Berlin. We are all concerned about how she is going to make it. Don’t get me wrong: She is good at painting, exceptionally well at it. But still, even Picasso did not get his due recognition long after his death. If you are looking for a daughter who will be rich and famous, the expectation needs to be adjusted a bit. And, yet, everyone manage to survive one way or the other.</p>
<p>I have several friends who have creative day jobs—they do both graphic design and website design for small businesses, either as independent contractors or as full-time employees—and although they don’t make tons of money, it’s a living wage. They do their painting and sculpting on their own time but get to be creative in some capacity all day, every day. It’s not a bad life. But you can’t be an idealist, refusing to lower yourself to designing advertisements or catalogs; then you really will starve.</p>
<p>My husband and I have gone through this over and over. We have a S who is in art school, plans to declare a major in sculpture and, yes, would like to be a gallery artist. He is doing a robotics minor (so everyone, including me, thinks this is his backup plan) but NO he insists…he is only interested in the robotics insomuch as it supports his interests in sculpture. He says if you go into this with a “backup” plan you are not really fully committed and the only way to succeed is to close your eyes and jump…It absolutely terrifies me sometimes because the analogy to dangerous risk taking is too obvious. However, I saw my physician brother-in-law be completely supportive of son wanting to do pro soccer–even took him to Germany to try out for pro at 15 and sent him to Paraguay to play at 16…but the kid himself now 21 realizes he won’t make it, is slowly finishing an undergrad degree and is working hard to get into vet school… </p>
<p>I don’t want my son to say that I didn’t let him try …We only gave him limits to what we would invest in art school (no debt, no withdrawals from our retirement savings). If he wants to do an MFA, (he says no…that is for teaching and may only happen if he is desperate). He didn’t do a lot of “art” this summer break but he did sketch a great deal, try some rubber casting and go to some museums and galleries on his trips to NYC. </p>
<p>I think it helped that we have taken an interest in his field as much as possible. We go to museums and galleries and discuss what we like and don’t like and why. He has taught us a lot from his art history class and while much of the stuff he produces is, in my opinion, odd or even disturbing, we are frank about what we find off putting but we try to remain open minded and supportive. </p>
<p>Secretly, I am happy about the robotics minor but I wouldn’t be surprised if he dropped it if it distracted him from the sculpture. THe most reassuring thing for me is that he seems genuinely happy in what he is doing; is willing to live frugally (he has to pay for all of his books and art supplies).</p>
<p>I wouldn’t force the minor or a “backup plan” but I would go the other way and express a lot of interest in painting and art. I would go to gallery openings and hunt down any local artists to see what they are doing and what your daughter likes. It also may show her the many paths to success in art…as well as the many challenges. Buy her some supplies and give her a commission – paint a picture of a pet or the house. I do ask my son apply for scholarships and enter in competitions because he is supposed to do everything possible to reduce the burden on us for his undergrad. So try going the other way…super supportive and interested …frankly, it is a tough world out there for anyone. I would be as worried about my son getting a “business” major undergrad as an art degree at this point. Certainly, with the latter he will be more fulfilled and happy and he may end up as financially secure as the former</p>
<p>True story:</p>
<p>My kid had a good friend who was an artist. They attended a top college. The artist majored in studio art. Her parents did insist that she go to a top college and major in studio art rather than attending an arts school. </p>
<p>Her dad was a mid-level manager at a large corporation. The corporation was building a new headquarters. The interior decorator it had hired to design the internal spaces came to a meeting of the board of directors and showed it the art she planned to put up on the walls. </p>
<p>One director said, after viewing the art: “I think this is a lot of crap.” His statement enabled two other directors to say they thought so too. At that point, someone on the board said “Have you ever seen the paintings in [my kid’s friend’s dad’s] office? I don’t usually like modern art, but I really like those.” A second director said something like "Funny you should say that. I was just thinking that the stuff I’ve seen in [her dad’s] office is a lot better than this stuff. "</p>
<p>So, one of the directors was given the assignment of finding out where the art work in that mid-level exec’s office came from. When asked, her dad ALMOST said “Oh, that’s just my kid’s stuff.” He caught himself just in time. "Oh, my D is a senior at [top college] majoring in studio art. She won the XYZ prize. She’s a really gifted artist, but she’s just starting out. "</p>
<p>Well…the directors decided to give her a fraction of what they would have paid to buy the art through the interior decorator to paint a fixed number of canvases. Half was paid in advance. Half when the canvases were completed. They actually really “enjoyed”–if that’s the right word–the fact that they were going to support an unknown who was the child of an employee rather than a “known” artist. </p>
<p>So, my kid’s friend got enough upfront money to pay for a studio in Manhattan and for an art studio. She worked in a gallery part time too, but rent was covered. She finished the canvases. They were installed at corporate headquarters.</p>
<p>The creative director of the PR firm the company used came to the opening of corporate headquarters. He was blown away by the art work. “I’ve never heard of this artist. This stuff is AMAZING.” They proudly told him the story–this is the work of the daughter of one of our employees. We liked her art too and decided to go with it rather than the art work of a more established artist. </p>
<p>Well…the PR firm offered her a job. She’s now the creative director of its office in China.</p>
<p>While it’s not quite where she envisioned herself, she’s really enjoying the experience and learning a lot about Asian art techniques.</p>
<p>My d earned an MFA in painting last year from a top program and her undergraduate degree from a prominent college is a double major in studio art and art history. Her goal is to teach on the college level and has been lucky in that she was the first MFA students in her department to teach her own class as opposed to simply being a TA during her second year. She also has a studio and has been in several gallery shows and has sold some of her pieces although her primary income is in her museum job at a prominent cutting edge institution. Making it as an artist is a tough road as you do need to be extremely self-motivated and to continually promote yourself and seek out opportunities to submit work for juried shows, etc. The academic world is very competitive- it is not easy to find tenure-track positions, more so adjunct or short-term visiting faculty positions and you do need to have the personality to be able to adjust to changing situations.</p>
<p>jonri, that’s a great story. Thanks for sharing.</p>
<p>Well, if you are good, you will shine someday.</p>
<p>Check out Abbie Ryan on eBay. She creates a painting every day, and they all sell! She is doing well!</p>
<p>The problem facing anyone who first decides when they’re college-aged that they want a career in any of the ‘arts’ is: the most successful artists usually demonstrate talent and a high degree of stick-to-itive interest very early in life. </p>
<p>The first word Picasso ever said was not “mama” , but “PIZ” , short for “lapiz” , which is Spanish for “pencil” [ Source = Arianna Huffington Picasso: Creator and Destroyer ] … seems L’il Pablo’s parents were art teachers, and Picasso was happily drawing away for hours with his pencil by the time he was 3 yrs old</p>
<p>Also: technique can be learned; but talent can’t be taught</p>
<p>There’s a perhaps apocryphal story about Mozart. A young man approached him and asked if Amadeus could teach him how to write symphonies</p>
<p>“Symphonies are very dificult” Mozart said “Why don’t you start with something simpler, like a sonata, or a concerto ??”</p>
<p>The man protested … "But you were writing symphonies when you were 5 yrs old !! "</p>
<p>" True … " Mozart replied “… but i didn’t have to ask anyone to teach me how”</p>
<p>She can always get more practical in graduate school.</p>
<p>I have an MBA from Michigan, and there were kids who were undergraduate Art History majors who were attending.</p>
<p>My kid, with 2300 SAT scores, wants to be a writer, so I am in the same boat. I would advise him to apply to Wharton Business School, but that is not his thing.</p>
<p>Don’t discourage her, or she will blame you, or always resent the fact you did not let her pursue her dreams.</p>