I wanted to start a companion to the @jtmoney thread: “film school: is your grad still working in a restaurant?” I posted in that forum about my kid’s adventure after film school, but since I also read all the art/illustration/animation threads, I’d love to hear some follow-up from parents (and graduates) for one-, two-, five-, and even-more-years-out from graduation. Plus I think it would be extremely helpful for prospective applicants.
digmedia, this type of post is very good, I believe. I hope you get a lot of answers.
My daughter: classically trained painter (non-university) at ateliers in Florence Italy, 4 years, Never attended university. Finished at age 21; been out of school for 6 years.
Age: 27
Occupation: Full-time painter. Been in business since she was 18.
School costs: we paid her first year, which was equivalent to attending our state university. After that she had scholarships, and paid everything herself with her sales.
Future: will expand her business to Europe, and purchase a property in Europe within five years.
Restaurant: Although she enjoys eating at restaurants, she has never worked at one.
@woodwinds - you made my morning!
Of D’s friends who majored in illustration…
.assistant manager of a game store and free lancer
character design at movie studio
and another is a toy designer (which sounds fun to me!)
Not sure why one would think a film or art major would be working in a restaurant. I get the idea of an artist or filmmaker not getting a full-time job right after graduation, but the idea of “restaurant work” is much more a reality to the acting or musical theatre graduates…not those with film or art degrees.
Actors need to audition during the day in order to get work. Sometimes that will entail hours on end. So many actors chose to find jobs that being after 5pm–thus the singing waiter.
However filmmakers and artists have much more flexibility in terms of full time employment while still working on their craft. They can take teach, do graphic arts, film production etc, while still being an artist or screenwriter.
@uskoolfish - I didn’t mean it literally… just mirroring the thread title for film school grads. The main thing I’m looking for are the stories of graduates: Where are they one, two, five years out?
I think it’s a helpful thread. It’s certainly in keeping with the general thought process out there. Many parents think of art school as an expensive ticket to poverty. Or my favorite line from the mom of a friend of my D’s: “My friend’s brother went to (fill in the blank Academy of Art and Design) and he’s now a security guard at a prison.” Hey - it’s steady work, bet he’s a freelancer.
Engineering is uber-popular right now, but it wasn’t too long ago that engineers were being laid off. One guy I know was my kids’ swimming instructor. He quit in the middle of the session because he was re-hired in a hurry to help work on the I-35 Bridge project (an emergency situation). Whether someone is in engineering, accounting, consulting or one of the creative fields, job-security is not the norm. The purpose of a college education is to make you an innovative and critical thinker, not merely to make you “skilled” in a given area. If your goal is only the latter, you will find it tough to make a living.
Edit/Update: Oh - and I don’t have a direct story, sorry. Just a rant 
Did not mean to denigrate the waitresses and cooks of the world, and the reality is in some parts of the world they make more consistent and reliable money than many college graduates. My nephew took a big cut in pay from his waiter job when he took his first teaching job. The parents of liberal arts majors have legitimate concerns for the ability of their children to make enough money starting out. Big loans can force grads to take jobs out of their major, I only chose restaurant because of my own daughters life long resistance to restaurant work. She does love to eat at them, though.
Still want to hear about stories from graduates.
Update on my daughter (out of atelier school 6 years; did not attend college): she was one of six artists interviewed by International Artist Magazine this month for “Inside the Studios of the World’s Best Artists”. Interestingly, of the six artists featured, at least three of them did not get their art training at university.
Very interesting, indeed, and it also means a lot of debt avoided. @woodwinds - Do you remember, some time ago, the posts about an art student with $100K (if I remember correctly) in student loan debt? Also, didn’t you have a musician daughter? How is she doing?
I think it also depends on what kind of style of art one is interested in creating. D is studying conceptual and contemporary art at NYU–primarily working in sculpture and sound art. It is a very different path than what one would learn at an atelier school.
uskookfish, I agree that is is important for the student to determine exactly what kind of art one is interested in creating, then go to wherever that is to get the training. Often it’s at university, many times it is not. digmedia, my youngest daughter is at a music conservatory getting her classical music training. She determined that that school was exactly where she would get the training she needed.
I was told by the head of the department of the illustration department where my S is studying to not be surprised if my S comes home to live for the first 6 months to a year.
Success isn’t handed to artists on a silver platter or a job usually. It’s earned based on the excellence and sheer determination of these kids to rise above the many others just dabbling in the arts but still calling themselves artists.
What other profession has people with little to no innate talent or training professing to be one of them? People with no training and talent don’t go around calling themselves doctor, lawyer, engineer, accountant, project manager, nurse or even plumber or electrician. But every yahoo wannabe can go around claiming to be an artist.
It’s true, @Madaboutx. There are no barriers to entry in the art world (some in the design but not many). When we think of “artistic license” we don’t exactly conjure up thoughts of artists sitting some state-mandated licensing exam LOL. And I just googled “graphic design license” and got a bunch of articles on how to license your graphic design work! Guess the art equivalent to the tough exam and the initials after the name would be the portfolio.
If the student isn’t gaining technical proficiency in his/her field, then art/design school is a waste of time and money. In that respect, there is a major advantage to the self-knowledge gained during the foundation year.
On the other hand: what do you call the guy who graduates last in his med school class? Doctor.
@Mamelot for a minute there I thought you going to say the guy who graduates last in med school is called an artist. Lol. I was thinking, not them too!!
Art school is more than the foundation year though. It’s about understanding the world of artistic expression and how art has evolved. The camera literally changed art. People didn’t need portraits painted anymore. Artists were forced out or forced to evolve.
Computers, Photoshop, and many technologies are again forcing artists to evolve or get out of the business. A true artist has to do things amateurs can not do. Art is changing now. Art history is important to giving today’s events context.
Also, skill development is necessary beyond simple proficiency. The mind must be honed and creativity focused as well. Moving beyond in Art will take strong mental and creative muscles.
Finally, connections are necessary as they are in every other field of business. Art school helps build some important and lasting connections.
I think the value of an art education gets dismissed quickly but a solid education is foundational to success. It doesn’t need to happen on a college campus but it does need to happen. College is one way and a few select students may be driven to get there on their own. It’s all good though. Many quit too soon and many don’t quit soon enough. Such is life.
@madaboutx I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that somewhere out there in a law office at 1 AM a corporate law associate is dreaming of art school as his/her “escape plan”. Similar to those in a “grind” sort of job (corporate finance, accounting, etc.) who dream of joining the ranks of academia some day (I know such people LOL). Neither has a clue about how art school or academia actually works - they just notice that both academics and artists seem to love their work and have plenty of autonomy. Those characteristics most of us just dream about in our work - so it’s not surprising that you find so many so-called “artists” floating around. Easier than calling yourself a physicist. (The exception would be “Economist” - EVERYONE thinks of themselves as one of those).
I totally agree with your points which of course highlight the advantages of a professional art school degree or a BFA at a larger LAC or university. So to the extent that the market isn’t recognizing these advantages (and can’t differentiate between the yahoos and the real McCoy artists/designers) wouldn’t that indicate that perhaps some of the professional art schools/programs may not be doing their job properly?
My comment about self knowledge and the foundation year was not meant to imply that this doesn’t continue to be gained after that point - but I would hope that if someone is NOT supposed to be in art school, he/she will discover that during the foundation year and make a change. Technical proficiency should be a minimum for the serious student of art - I think the biggest would be opening up the conceptual and creative side - more than he/she has been doing to date. If none of that is happening, that person isn’t in the right program and needs to get out pronto. Compare that to someone who barely passes his/her med or law school exams but manages to squeak by the Boards or the Bar (some states don’t even require the Bar Exam!). Regardless of the poor fit, they are still “credentialed” as a doc. or an attorney (whether they can find employment may be another matter of course but the “licensing” does serve to restrict entry into the field so my guess is yes, they will still find work in their field somewhere).
@Mamelot - there are many art programs that do a poor job of producing working artists. Schools that don’t require a portfolio review, schools that go easy on any portfolio review and schools that dedicate minimal resources to an art program and don’t have any working artists on staff (vs full time academics).
At the school my S attends, you can randomly pull any parent and ask when their kid showed talent and 2-3 yrs old is the universal answer. The kids there explode with talent and are selected for that reason. Programs that aren’t selective are risky in my opinion.
@Madaboutx you could be right and we never ran across those schools - primarily because my D was interested in stand alone AICAD colleges. I would bet all the parents we saw at the three accepted student days we attended would say the same thing as you (as would I of course). The skeptic in me still remembers “art school” from 30 years ago as a haven for wannabes who thought it was “cool” to be an artist. I’m sure they never lasted the 4 years back then and it would be even less likely to now that professional schools of art have agreed on standards for selectivity, foundation, critique etc. I do worry that even in the professional schools of today it’s possible to have a wonderful experience, to grow exponentially as an artist and designer, and graduate w/o a clue as to how to find gainful employment. Guess we’ll be finding out for ourselves now that D has chosen her school.
It seems to me that for the talented, driven student who keeps up with the technology, the prospects for employment are higher than they have ever been (especially with some additional training): film/video editor, layout artist, interior designer, graphics designer, visual effects artist, computer game designer, animator, industrial design, landscape architect, photographer, tattoo artist, art teacher, art therapist, jewelry design, logo design, layout artist, book cover artist, advertising design and on and on and on. Possibilities are endless. Is that considered “prostituting your talent” for money? Of course not. Having that employment/job/money coming in allows you to develop your true passion as an artist (Just IMNSHO).
digmedia, piggybacking on your recent post in your film school thread, I believe that success in art (painting, drawing, scupture) and in music is very similar: The students who come into college/atelier/conservatory already performing, selling work and evolve, as someone put it, are the ones who succeed. They do not expect their school to show them how to succeed. They come to school to perfect their craft, to get specific training in an area where they already have a vision, and they develop their own style.