@Ohiodad51 - Looking forward to a trip report.
Still on the road. Will give some thoughts early next week probably.
OK, we are back. Time for a short(ish) trip report. Headline is that she liked three of the four schools we visited. Tops for her was Vassar, followed by Fordham and then Bucknell (may be some sympathy points for Dad in that one, not sure). She really did not like Yale at all which was honestly not terribly surprising.
Getting the basics out of the way, we decided to stay in Fort Lee on our first night. We went across the bridge that evening and walked a bit of Manhattan. It was the first time I had seen the 9-11 memorial, which was very impressive. We also stretched our legs a bit and walked down to Washington Square Park as my daughter had not been there before. Dinner was street noodles for dad and daughter in the park, ice cream for mom. A bit of a digression. Normally, my wife is the kind of person who eats a grilled portabello instead of a hamburg, a salad at dinner instead of potato, grapefruit and yogurt in the morning instead of cereal, etc. Yet this same woman basically existed for a week on a straight diet of ice cream, peanut m&m’s, oreos and popcorn with some greek yogurt in the mornings for good measure. Been married twenty years and have never seen the like. When I asked her why she said that is what you are supposed to eat on a college road trip. Chicks are weird.
The next day found me dropping another 14 dollars to drive across the bridge to Fordham. Traffic was not terrible except on the Manhattan side of the bridge where Rt 9 seems to split in about eight different directions, none of which are intelligible to normal people. Instead of heading right to Fordham we went down to Arthur Avenue for lunch and a bit of a walk. Great sandwich at Mike’s Deli for dad, eh NY style pizza at a stand up pizza joint for mom and daughter.
Fordham itself was nice. Very small campus, but well maintained, nice architecture. Very nice students. Two kids came up to my wife while she was looking at an information board and asked if she needed help which was really cool. The entire campus is gated, so although security seems pretty tight, once you are on campus it feels open if that makes any sense. The campus did seem small to me given that there are 6,000 students resident on that campus. I would wonder how closed in it would feel come winter time. The students stressed that you can take the train or the “Ram Van” in and out of Manhattan easily, so my guess is that it gets a little closed in after awhile. Still, great campus, especially for a “city” school.
Worst information session ever. Think speed freak reciting a speech that would normally take an hour and fifteen minutes in fifty minutes and you will get the jist. No questions, just head down at the podium reading from a page. The entire point seemed to be hey, look we are in New York City! Conversely, best tour of the entire trip. Our tour guide was a cheerleader who was about as bubbly as bubbly could be. While that made me want to stick a fork in my eye repeatedly, my daughter enjoyed it and several of the girls on the tour chattered amicably with the tour guide throughout the tour. After the tour, our guide introduced my daughter to a friend who was involved in the theater program at the Rose Hill campus. I thought that was really above and beyond and a very nice gesture. The friend spent a few minutes talking to my daughter about the differences between theater at Lincoln Center (majors and minors) and theater at Rose Hill (extra curricular but still several student run performances a year), and gave her her e mail if she had any follow up questions. Really very nice. Over all a very positive experience.
After the Fordham visit we headed back to Manhattan to see Something’s Rotten on Broadway. Traffic was not a problem and the show was OK. Kid enjoyed actually being on the real live Broadway though. We left the show and drove to New Haven which made for a long day.
The next morning we went to Yale which included maybe the creepiest part of the entire tour, a video presentation entitled “Why I chose Yale”. I get that I am not the target demographic, but watching a dozen kids dance and sing their way across campus on a video screen for thirty minutes was maybe not the best use of time. By about half way through the information session which followed the video, my daughter had already tuned out. Too many students, too large of a school. We had driven around a bit before the information session and she was already thinking it was not for her so we bailed on the tour and headed to Vassar after stopping for decent pizza (forget the name, right next to Toads) and an ice cream cone for mom.
Best information session hands down the entire trip was at Vassar. Recent alumnae, engaging speaker, provided just enough of the raw data to make it worth while but also mixed in a fair amount of information not on the web site which was helpful. She did a great job of engaging with the kids and asked each one where they were from and what they were hoping to learn about Vassar that day. Our tour of Vassar was very nice. Nice tour guide. Knowledgeable, made an effort to talk to the kids on the tour. Parts of the campus are really beautiful, but parts were also very unkempt which was strange. Uncut grass, weeds in the paths, that kind of thing. It was really shocking. Hopefully, that was because of all the construction going on on campus and because literally no one was there. Generally the campus reminded me of Oberlin College. Very pretty buildings, but eclectic. Each seems to be designed in the style of a specific period, rather than following a common theme. Not a huge fan of that, but I must say that the main quad with the Library, the main entrance gate, the main building and the huge tree right in the center of the quad is exactly what college should look like. The library itself was stunning. On the down side, I was thrown a bit by the fact that in the dormitories (called houses, assumedly because they are more expensive than mere dormitories) all of the bathrooms are mixed gender. But then again, it is Vassar, what do you expect?
Quite honestly, I think Vassar was a real good fit for her. No core curriculum, large arts presence, “socially conscious”, exceptional academics, small campus but with generally easy access to the city. It was easy for both my wife and I to see her there. I think she could see it as well since that was the only tour where she took pictures and notes while we were there. Much more importantly, Vassar is close to the Culinary Institute of America. If you are out that way, stop in for lunch or dinner. No joke.
We finished up with Bucknell the next day. No problems at all with either the information session or the tour. Well organized, good presenter for the information session. Nice, knowledgable tour guide, although I took exception when she was explaining a tradition that happens at graduation which students have been doing “forever” which did not exist when I was a student. Surely, it was not that long ago? Realistically, I think Bucknell has some things my daughter likes. It is the right size, it has a pretty campus with lots of space and solid academics. But it is just not a great fit. There is no real access to a city, it is not the strongest program in the social sciences and while it has a nice theater and arts program, it is not at the level of either Fordham nor Vassar.
Some general thoughts. The night before each visit, my daughter kind of perused the college’s web site and map to get a basic “mental orientation” for each school. After each visit, she pulled out her phone and made a list of pluses and minuses for each school. Once we were done, she went through those lists and kind of refined it so now we have an idea of the types of things that seem to matter to her. One of the surprising things that came out of that process was that she enjoyed the religious flavor of Fordham, something she hadn’t really considered to be important to her. Another was that although she has been adamant she did not want a girl’s school, she liked the fact that Vassar had a tradition as a woman’s college, and that they still have an all woman’s house on campus. Not sure that this has made her rethink the no single sex college rule, but it is good that she is looking at things critically in my opinion.
At the end of the day, I think the two survivors from this round are Fordham and Vassar, and she tentatively plans on going back this spring for an overnight visit if possible or to sit in on a class, etc. Additionally, we will begin to tailor our search to smaller schools with a distinct campus near or next to a city. I am still thinking Tufts, Brown, Swarthmore, Haverford, Georgetown and JHU. She still wants to visit UChicago, although after Yale I think that desire is fading. Maybe Northwestern, but she is not sure. We won’t go anywhere again until after the PSATs and one round of SAT or ACT results are in and that may inform her choices as well.
Thanks again for all the advice. It sure helped!
Helpful and humorous write-up, @Ohiodad51! Sounds like the trip was a huge success, both in pinning down what interests your daughter and finding some schools that interest her.
I had the exact same impression about the Vassar campus when I visited about 2 years ago. A little shabby but loved that library! Definitely get your daughter to look at Swarthmore and Haverford. I did find the vast majority of LACs have coed bathrooms.
Well, if she didn’t like DS’s school, at least she liked DW’s two schools (Vassar (UG) and Fordham (MBA )). 
Btw, things might have changed since DW’s time, but she felt that Vassar’s food was first rate. Her mother is a gourmet cook, and DW has been to the Culinary Institute, so she has a basis of comparison. But, things might well have changed.
Glad you had a successful trip.
I can empathize with encountering lack of fit vs. alma mater.
My wife thought hers would fit our son, but as we toured the place the lack of fit & chemistry was apparent. Even she didn’t like it, for him, as much as some of his other choices. He didn’t even apply, in the end. None of my kids applied to my alma mater either, out of HS, but I didn’t expect that they would so there were no “dashed hopes”.
As it happens, we were at Vassar ourselves recenty, to see a play.
Considering that nobody in my family’ has attended there, I’ve been there rather a lot, I think- six times, by my count. It’s a nice little campus. I didn’t notice unkempt parts. But I never noticed them at Oberlin either, though a few people on CC have commented on it.
There is nothing like actually visiting a campus. Vassar was (and is) my daughter’s favorite, too. She noticed and remarked that the grounds weren’t that well kept. We are in the landscape nursery business and my daughter’s aesthetic sense is well developed. But the students were welcoming, the library was beautiful and she loves the idea of no core curriculum. Add to that an hour and forty minute train ride to Grand Central Station and it moved to the top of her list. We will meet her at Newark Airport at the end of the month for our Lafayette, Lehigh, Colgate, Hamilton, Tufts tour. Bucknell is also a school she is interested in, but we couldn’t fit it in this trip. I’ve seen on CC that many people compare it to Colgate and Lehigh. I’m hoping she’ll decide which school she would like to apply ED to by the end of the summer.
@Ohiodad51 I’m late to this thread, but it reminds me of my daughter’s college search - similar interests and schools. Not sure if you would want to wade through it, but it’s somewhat chronicled here http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1381549-starting-the-search-p1.html I got a lot of useful advice from other CC parents in the thread.
By the way, I’ve enjoyed your past threads on college recruiting. My son is an athlete, and I’m starting the college search with him this summer.
Best of luck to your daughter!
Other schools to consider that are more mid-sized but might fit the bill. Carnegie Mellon - great arts/theater as well as strong academics. Distinct campus, yet accessible to the city. And WashU in St Louis. Have a daughter there - all programs are strong. Dorms and food are first rate. The community is socially conscious, the loop nearby is a great neighborhood, downtown easily accessed with interesting food scene, and there is public transport directly from campus to airport.
And JHU had the best tour we went on - gentleman spoke for 75 minutes - no notes - no power point - and everyone was spellbound. First time I didn’t see most of the audience on their smart phones throughout an info session. It really gave us a great sense of the school, it’s history, it’s philosophy, how it was different from other places, what types of kids thrived there and what they were hoping to achieve with their students.
And a thought for the future. I really hoped my kids would take advantage of ED, but we were counseled against it unless they were really sure because so much does change through that senior year. They did do several EA schools and it was nice to have acceptances before the end of December. But I did not understand the value of April visits until we went through the process. It was hard to visit places that month because of the distance and AP exams looming, but those overnights really made the difference in decision-making. We even had schools pay for our flights. It is totally different to tour the schools in April with the kids who are actually accepted and might be your classmates.
Caveat on CMU theater… It is one of the top programs in the nation- UBER competitive. Last year over 2400 people auditioned to be theater majors there- they took 20.
CMU is a conservatory, not a BA theater program, which I think the the OP is looking for.
A conservatory or BFA like CMU or NYU typically offers intensive pre-professional training in a specific discipline of theater (directing, acting, tech etc…); whereas, a BA program like Yale or Vassar typically offers a broad based study of theater as a branch of the humanities. Here is a good article explaining the differences between the two types of programs:
http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2012/04/23/up-close-for-thespians-yale-degree-not-enough/
This may have already been mentioned, but since your daughter likes the feel of a LAC and is interested in theater, she might want to consider Muhlenberg. It has a strong theater program (I know of a student who was accepted into NYU’s very competitive program, but couldn’t afford to attend and is now at Muhlenberg) and, while not as selective as Vassar, it is known to have strong academics (and generous merit aid for top students).
I would just say that if she didn’t like Yale, I suspect she might not be crazy about Brown, either. But who knows?
By the way, it sounds like you ate at Yorkside Pizza in New Haven. It is OK, but it does not represent the pizza excellence of New Haven.
My D did not care for Yale, loved Brown (though ultimately decided to seek other types of schools) I second Muhlenberg as a great LAC with a strong BA theater dept. You do not “have to” audition (which is generally required for BFA programs) but they do offer an opportunity to audition for scholarships etc.
@toowonderful, I’m just curious, was your D also at Yale during the summer? Strictly anecdotal, but I have noticed a different reaction to Y when school is not in session and it seems to be more pronounced than at other schools. The tours seem more “touristy”, as for example, H was but not P.
I don’t really think that the reason she didn’t like Yale was because we were there in the summer. I think it had a lot more to do with the fact that Yale is not an enclosed campus. She seems to like the schools that are not interspersed with “towney stuff”. I don’t think she sees herself walking down a couple city streets and across several different quads to get to class from her dorm or whatever. That feeling, that she wants to be within a “bubble”, isn’t dependent on the timing of the visit. For what it is worth, my recollection is that Brown’s campus is much more unitary (if that is the right word) than Yale’s. Then again, I was only at Brown once, so I could be wrong. Brown is also appreciably smaller. For those reasons I believe Brown will be more attractive to her. Plus, she is well on her way to being a hippy dippy kid, and well, where else would you expect such a kid to apply?
@hunt, you are probably right about the pizza joint. The criteria for lunch however was proximity to an ice cream place for mama rather than pizza excellence 
@monydad, I did not mean to imply that Oberlin’s grounds were unkempt. My point was that both Vassar and Oberlin have a collection of buildings built in disparate styles, rather than all built in a common theme (like Fordham and Bucknell). And I don’t know if I would be disappointed if Bucknell doesn’t make it past the first cut. It was a great school for me, and I would recommend it to anyone. But you have to want a fairly isolated undergraduate experience to truly enjoy going to school there. Much as I would not have been happy at someplace like Fordham with people everywhere, I am not sure my daughter would be happy if the big activity for the weekend was floating down the Susquehanna in an inner tube. Different strokes.
@arwarw, Thanks! Best to your son. Athletic recruiting is a whole different ball game from regular admissions stuff, at least so far.
@IxnayBob - yes, she visited Yale in the summer. I honestly don’t what didn’t “click” for her, but it never got close to the final list. Her “academic reach” schools ended up being Brown and Northwestern.
I’m certain Yale has an excellent undergrad theater program given the reputation of Yale, the Yale School of Drama, the smart and talented undergrads and the school’s vast resources; but we had a hard time getting our arms around the undergrad theater program. They wouldn’t permit my daughter a departmental tour or class visitation pre-acceptance; which I can appreciate - given that it’s Yale and they’re probably inundated with similar requests that would be disruptive to the students; but it was hard for her to get excited about Yale without kicking the tires.
Of the 12 or so theater departments she did visit, she was most excited about Brown, Northwestern, Williams and Fordham LC.
re#216:
" I did not mean to imply that Oberlin’s grounds were unkempt"
You didn’t imply it in any way. I brought it up myself, as something some others have said, along the same lines as your comment about Vassar in #202. (whether or not you really meant that about Vassar, they did mean it about Oberlin).
In our case, the “disappointment” about kid not wanting alma mater,to the extent it existed, was not that they should apply there anyway even though it didn’t fit. It was more like the one thing we could maybe give them, that could help them a little maybe in this stressful process, is a legacy preference bump. And sadly it didn’t fit so we couldn’t give them that little bit of assistance. Besides which I like excuses to visit alma mater. Not sure wife feels the same though, about hers.
My D2 actually did wind up transferring to my alma mater later on, and it really was/is kind of nice having her there and sharing that common bond. But at that time she decided that she wanted to go there, which was not the case out of HS. Sometimes what they think they want, before they actually experience it, isn;t what they really want, as it turns out. Despite best efforts to decipher up-front.