One of the memorable examples in the lengthy thread was somebody who got turned off from the college because of the tour guide’s shoes.
We had a couple of tour guides that we suspected of being quite unrepresentative of the student body–and perhaps deliberately so. At Amherst, we had the most unpreppy tour guide imaginable–dressed in purple, paper clip pierces, goofy demeanor. We liked him, but didn’t feel he gave much of an impression of the average Amherst student. We wondered if he’d been hired to cut against the preppy image of Amherst.
The reality is that there are SO many great colleges out there that would be a good fit for most students. Both my kids had quite lengthy “schools under consideration” lists early in the process. When winnowing down the list to determine the final list of schools to apply to, most decisions were based on concrete criteria - strength of potential majors and other academic and extracurricular factors, location, etc. - but a few times decisions were made on something that others might deem silly or purely on gut feel. But that was totally ok! That list of 30ish schools had to be cut drastically and as long as you wind up with a suitable list of 5, 10 or 15 including reaches, matches, and safeties, all is good!
That said, it is good to remind the student not to get swayed by the tour guide or his shoes, the weather, other people on the tour, etc.
Some info sessions do show the intensity of the academic vibe at certain colleges, both through the content of the info session and the Type A people that the school attracts. That can be helpful information in and of itself. Some people thrive in such environments, others are looking for something different.
General agreement on the importance of looking past things like the tour guide’s shoes, but some seemingly surface-level impressions can be significant, though. My oldest toured Georgetown last year, and her initial reaction was that it “felt too old”. Well, old (or even old-looking) buildings are kind of a plus to me, so I was surprised—and it’s not like there’s any shabbiness or such in the physical plant there, you know? Well, on discussing further, she’d smelled some mustiness in some of the buildings, and when I pointed out that it was summer in DC and, well, that happens, she countered with saying that it was a small thing, she didn’t want to spend four years in a place with distracting off smells. Fine, fair enough, cross them off our list.
@doschicos and @dfbdfb, that brings up another point about the actual purpose of all of this. I personally am trying to remain cognizant of why we are doing this, and not just getting lost in the minutiae of this or that. The idea is to help my daughter develop a sense of whether she thinks she can be happy and thrive at a particular school for four years. It is not necessarily to see every school possible. From what I have heard anecdotally from other parents, and also read about here, it seems like people see a ton of schools I would really like to avoid that if possible, because you are right, there are a lot of potentially great fits for my daughter out there. To me, the key isn’t to examine every one of them, because I would worry that would make her miss the forest for the trees. The key is to find one that checks all of her personal boxes, and where she can grow emotionally, intellectually and maybe have a little bit of fun - but no boys!
Realizing we are several steps away from this, and that things could change, my daughter announced the other day she would apply to five schools. One safety, three matches and a reach. Now, she has been getting some information from her guidance counselor because there are meetings this summer for the student, parent and counselor to kind of get started on the process, so I am assuming that this idea originated there. But while the idea of only five applications would horrify some parents that I know, I kinda like the sentiment. I would be OK with 2 or 3 reaches instead of 1, but I do get the idea. Best to do a small number of applications that you can really do well, rather than shot gunning 15-20 schools that are likely not going to get your best effort.
Basically, what I am trying to say is that I look at this process of college tours/kid research/likely eventual follow up visits as a tool to get my daughter in a position where she can find 5-7 schools where she can see herself spending a happy and productive four years. Personally, it is immaterial to me if there are 20 other schools where she can be as happy. Am I nuts to look at it this way?
@Ohiodad51, I like the way you are looking at this (so perhaps we are both nuts!); D applied to just six schools, but they were all schools at which she felt she could be happy. As long as your D’s list has a financial and admissions safety that she’d be good with (and assuming you are not trying to generate multiple merit or FA offers), entertaining every possibility is exhausting.
@ohiodad51 - I agree with your sentiments. Good luck with the no boys thing. However, given the current trends in the admissions process, my own observations and experiences have shown that kids that wind up with the best options on April 1st are applying to more schools, not less. The constantly decreasing acceptance rates, increasing use of early decision and the move to more active waitlists can lead to some unexpected results these days. Barring applying ED and having success, if your daughter’s list will only be 5-7 schools, I would strongly suggest that she include an EA school or two that she is likely to get into and would be HAPPY to attend. That way, she’ll hopefully have that in her pocket early on and can then concentrate on just a handful of more reach heavy schools. If things don’t pan out EA, it would give your daughter sufficient time to regroup and perhaps expand her list. It’s a bit trickier than the process with your son as a recruited athlete.
Applying to one reach is OK–if attending a reach school is not a priority. If the one reach is a school the kid really, really likes, there are probably other reaches that are similar. Strategy of number of schools really depends on what’s important to the kid.
For early visits, I think it’s most important to visit several different types of school–large, small, rural, urban, etc.
Hunt said: “At Amherst, we had the most unpreppy tour guide imaginable–dressed in purple, paper clip pierces, goofy demeanor. We liked him, but didn’t feel he gave much of an impression of the average Amherst student. We wondered if he’d been hired to cut against the preppy image of Amherst.”
How long ago was that? Because when we visited Amherst, we didn’t see any preppy people anywhere. The people we saw were the most diverse bunch we saw at any of the 10 eastern colleges we visited.
Now Dartmouth - that was preppy. Dang.
Still, you may have a point. Our guide at the University of Chicago was a happy go luck frivolous comedian. Chicago may not be the grindhouse it once was, but this guy was straight out of Faber College.
@Ohiodad51, I think that the reason this thread has been so active and so positive is that you are being so sound and level-headed about the process & it’s a breath of fresh air
Re: weird things putting a kid off: I know / have kids who have nixed a college before getting out of the car b/c they didn’t like the look; b/c the kids they saw on campus wore the same brands of clothes, b/c the tour guide was too bouncy and peppy, and b/c the kids in the cafeteria were all sitting in ones & twos (no groups). The funny thing is, though I wouldn’t have seen those features, in each of those instances I think that the kid made the right call- the schools they ended up choosing were better fits. Sometimes I think they get a gut feeling that they don’t know how to articulate so it comes out as something that seems trivial.
Tour guides are not necessarily representative of the student body.
Neither are the students who host prefreshmen for overnight visits.
There’s self-selection here. Students don’t have to do these things. Those who wouldn’t want to do them (say, the entire population of introverts) opt out.
@collegemom3717, thanks for the affirmation. I guess that is one of the strange things about the internet, because in reality I am neither positive nor level headed (just ask my wife).
All kidding aside, I think your point about little things, even things those of us approaching middle age may find trivial, providing kids a bit of insight is well taken. That is really the point. Mom and I can advise, but at the end of the day the kid is going to live there, and if she chooses well, her college will define her in many ways throughout the remainder of her life. We can just help her walk the line between keeping her eye on the big picture (academic fit, programs, money) while still making note of the little things that might give her a clue of what it is like to actually live on a particular campus.
At this stage, I would really like for her to think mostly big picture, and am trying to advise her to keep that focus in mind. I have no problem going back to certain schools next year or during her senior fall, if the school makes the first cut. Fit and vibe I think are better sought in a longer trip when she can interview, sit in on a class, maybe do an overnight. Baby steps.
I agree on keeping the list reasonable, by screening upfront. That’s what my kids did, anyway. Based on our experience with D1 and with S, I might suggest upping by one or two more matches, if D is equally enthused by these additional schools. Also if there is another reach that is not ridiculously so, that D is particularly enthused about above nearly all others, and for whom she seems a particularly ideal fit, I would not fail to apply merely due to some self-imposed application limit.
The last few posts reminded me that on our college tour road trips, when there were multiple tour guides, we split up. Sometimes my husband went with my older daughter on one tour and I went with the younger sibling on another tour. That way we could compare notes and it was like an insurance policy against a dud of a tour guide ruining her impression. On our more recent trip to the midwest, my husband and I went with the younger sibling and let the rising senior go in another group by herself. That worked too.
@Marian - I totally agree that tour guides are not representative of the student body. In most cases, they are clearly in the top 10% of positive campus experiences. I understand it and value seeing what the highest achievement levels may be on a campus - but they are often the exception and not the rule in our experience.
Many of our tour guides were drama majors, so my impression is that there is lots of theater out there! Tufts, by the way has drama and dance major and also strong tradition of changing the world now - it permeates every major not just the international relations crowd.
If there’s more than one tour group, split up, eg. parent with one group, child with another. The quality of the guides vary. And, with a solo parent asking questions, child isn’t potentially embarrassed.
Have your child hone her questions, i.e. on this trip figure out what’s important for her to know, and with that how she wants to present herself. This will help her when doing interviews and when writing a personal essay for a specific college.
For theatre program in Manhattan visit NYU.
Apologies if these points have been raised. I only looked at the first few pages.
However, given the current trends in the admissions process, my own observations and experiences have shown that kids that wind up with the best options on April 1st are applying to more schools, not less. The constantly decreasing acceptance rates, increasing use of early decision and the move to more active waitlists can lead to some unexpected results these days. Barring applying ED and having success, if your daughter’s list will only be 5-7 schools, I would strongly suggest that she include an EA school or two that she is likely to get into and would be HAPPY to attend. That way, she’ll hopefully have that in her pocket early on and can then concentrate on just a handful of more reach heavy schools. If things don’t pan out EA, it would give your daughter sufficient time to regroup and perhaps expand her list. It’s a bit trickier than the process with your son as a recruited athlete.
