Help! Princeton vs USNA

Would the medical issue be a problem in the USNA, Navy ROTC, or service in the Navy?

@SailingMomof2 is correct: There’s his answer. If this is truly the case, he should opt for Princeton without ROTC and consider OCS if he still wants to serve post grad. If his heart isn’t pining for a commission then, he’s gotten a fine undergraduate education with no military commitment, and he can get on with his life.

I will also add that if he isn’t interested in a military career, one thing the academy route WILL do is prove that rather quickly — and painfully. He should not underestimate the scathing difficulty of Plebe year from the military perspective. He will be stretched to his physical and emotional limits only to be built back up very slowly (and, again, painfully) over the remaining three years; that’s the program at all of the academies as these new officers are being trained to lead and make decisions under extreme pressure. He will need a strong commitment to the end goal to sustain him through the brutality. Plebe year is a weed-out exercise, and attrition is high at all of the academies as each mid’s/cadet’s motives and internal strength are put to the test. That’s why I emphasized choosing the college experience over any other factors first.

I also think that no discussion of choosing to attend a service academy can skirt the fundamental fact that the purpose of these schools is to prepare officers for war. They are not just “different” college choices. They are schools of warfare and their main mission is not academics. Our world is not getting any safer. More and more officers are going to be needed to carry out our country’s decisions. To this end, USMA branched 81% of the class of 2019 into combat arms. You can be certain that 81% of the class did not select a combat arms branch as a first choice. Though mids and cadets may be able to select their majors, they serve at the needs of the military, and the military ultimately controls in which area they will serve. It was enlightening to our son to find out that undergraduate major is only a consideration for a handful of branches. It was also enlightening to find that the various branches (Army has 17) have various service commitments; five is the minimum. In our son’s case, he went into USMA thinking he’d five-and-dive, but the branch he was selected for had a longer service commitment, and he was also selected for grad school, so the Army will own him for the next nine years. He’s fine with that because his goals align with the Army’s choices for him, but this lack of autonomy cannot be overlooked. (FWIW, he’s also at the top of his class. Class rank, of which academics is only one factor, does not equal autonomy.)

I wish your son well, @C1nj. I’m sure he is a fine young man who would make a fine officer, but he needs to decide where his heart lies.

@C1nj posted upthread that USNA issued a waiver for his condition, so the Navy has determined it is not an issue for Navy service.

He received a medical waiver.

However, if his condition resurfaced he could be forced out. I don’t think this is likely but you never know.

If it resurfaced at Princeton, he could be separated from Army ROTC, but at least he still would be at Princeton and we could afford the tuition.

“opt for Princeton without ROTC and consider OCS if he still wants to serve post grad”

It’s ironic that you said that @ChoatieMom. Three students on SAF are in the same situation as my son.
They have decided to forgo the ROTC scholarship, partly due to Princeton’s generous financial aid, and pursue OCS after graduation.

It’s a great idea but I doubt my son would go along. Plus he still can try ROTC for one year without any obligation.

It sounds as if your son would like to be a pilot. If he becomes a pilot then realistically he will stay in for 20 years. The AF and Navy require about a 12 year commitment for pilots. The retirement pay at 20 years is too good to pass up. If he is a pilot for 20 years then becoming a commercial air line pilot becomes very attractive.

If he want a military career there are significant advantages to the service academy. You may need medical counsel to make an informed decision on the probability that his medical condition will resurface and disqualify him for military service. If he wants a career as an engineer then Princeton will be better preparation. As @Hamurtle posted earlier General Mark A. Milley has been nominated to serve as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Princeton does not preclude a long and successful military career.

Applying for OCS is not a sure thing. If your son wants multiple options AROTC at Princeton will provide that opportunity. At the end of his freshman year he can be dedicated to a short military career or find out that the military is not for him. At the end of his commitment he can stay in the military. We have multiple members of our family that have served in the military; they all complain bitterly but are proud of their service. Some like the military; some do not.

@C1nj And the final answer is??

Without reading through everything - we had a Princeton grad superstar in my Marine Corps OCS platoon as well as several Navy Academy grads in the next 6 months of training. All were about as good as it gets. Either answer would work remarkably well. There was mention about flight and that’s never a guarantee. Some of my friends that went that route got out after their initial commitment and don’t fly anymore. Some that were offered flight training ended up being dropped for one reason or another. One can accomplish the same goals regardless of where they went for undergrad. It’s probably more about the desired undergrad experience than what would come after.

That would be a heck of a choice if you have it.

My son ended up choosing Princeton AROTC. He started by accepting Princeton on the night of April 29th but he actually took till May 1st to decline his USNA appointment.

It was the hardest decision he ever had to make. He stared at his USNA portal for hours.

Since then he hasn’t looked back. I haven’t heard him say he regretted his decision and he seems really excited about Princeton. In fact, he is applying to Bridge Year.

A letter was also sent to the Senator who appointed him to USNA. My son thanked him for the appointment and explained why he declined it.

Unless you go through the process, most people have no idea how much work is involved in securing an appointment to a service academy. There are physical fitness tests, medical tests, countless essays, congressional interviews, strict timelines and summer camps. It takes an incredible amount of perseverance.

It may not be easier getting into an Ivy but it’s definitely a lot less work.

I want to thank everyone for offering their advice.

Good luck. Hope it all works out great for him !

I wonder if the senator was left scratching his head though. Does the appointment for your state go to waste?

I’m sure there talented kids right behind him who would have given their right arm for the opportunity.

Do they have a waitlist by state ?

That would be such a shame if they don’t, too bad he couldn’t have known a bit earlier. Of course it was his choice to use he wished obviously.

When I went though OCS.at quantico. We had one student from Harvard who had to NPQ. He wasn’t impressive at all. But half the class npq’d for one reason or another. We were a pretty smallish group by the end of summer.

Flagships and others of the type were the most common. If you had a flight contract then they were actually trying to get people to switch to a ground contract. My rack mate was from Durango co. And a Native American. I had never personally met with anyone from co until then. My other friend was from St. Cloud state in minn. I had never been on a plane before then. Lol. Find memories. I loved all of it. Except air conditioned lecture halls, I couldn’t stay awake.

@privatebanker , it isn’t that much of a zero sum game https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/Apply/US-Senators-Representatives-and-Delegates.php There are indeed alternates to fill his spot.

@C1nj , glad to hear that your son seems to have peace of mind about a very tough decision. He made the choice I was rooting for, but of course there were good arguments for both. It definitely had to be hard to let the USNA appointment go after all that work. Good luck to him with the Bridge Year application, and congrats on a job well done!

@privatebanker I understand what you are saying.

However, Princeton Preview with ROTC as the host, wasn’t until April 15th.

He also toured a naval ship, flew in a helicopter, spoke to an active duty submarine officer and pilot, watched 10 hours of “Carrier” and met with an Army NG officer during Easter break.

Ironically, I found 3 other appointees in the same situation and they all chose Princeton.

What is morally wrong are the candidates who accept their appointments and never report to Induction Day.
The candidates on the waiting list never get a chance.

That’s awesome. If there is a waitlist is all I was asking. It’s such a hard process I had no idea how this was handled. I was. PLC program and non academy guy myself.

It’s think it’s a great option your son has and Princeton is special. And my wife 100 percent agrees with you. Go into military after and try different things in college and academies are really tough.

Perhaps I’ve always had a special kind of respect and awe if the academies. Especially Annapolis. It’s just a different deal to me.and as a son if ww Ii naval officer the stories get embedded. He always felt the the ring knockers not only had a lifetime connection but were slotted for success in the service and industry equally.

The academies account for no-shows in their yield formulas. Just like other colleges, one candidate who does not report does not translate to someone in the National Wait List (NWL) pool who doesn’t get a call. Let’s say USNA needs an incoming class of 1,300 to eventually commission 1,000 officers four years later (both USNA and USMA expect to lose about 300 mids/cadets between I/R-Day and graduation) and sends out 1,500 offers of appointment to yield that 1,300. The academy is not underenrolled until the 201st candidate declines or fails to show, and they’ve padded enough to never be in that position prior to the start of the Plebe academic year. In addition to no-shows, the padding accounts for fall-outs during Plebe summer, academic, honor, and medical separations over the four years, and attrition due to those who decide not to take the oath and commit prior to the start of junior year. So, there’s no need to be concerned that anyone in the NWL pool was cheated by a handful of appointees who don’t show up for I-Day; the candidates in that pool didn’t even make the initial padded list. No one is just one turn-down or no-show away.

That said, a handful of candidates do get pulled from the NWL each year, but not due to no-shows.

Congrats to your son, @c1nj. That decision seemed like a no-brainer to me.