Help! SAT/ACT Advice Needed!

Parents Forum
1

<p>I originally published this post in the ACT/SAT section, but I think the Parent section might be the more appropriate place, since I could use some help from some experienced, unconfused parents (unlike myself!). </p>

<p>Specifically, my twin daughters (rising seniors) and I need advice re the SAT/ACT. Unfortunately, their guidance counselor left several months ago on disability and was not replaced, so I am turning to all of you!</p>

<p>Here are my ds' stats:</p>

<p>D1</p>

<p>PSAT 226</p>

<p>SAT I (old): 730 V
660 M</p>

<p>SAT I (new): 730 CR
720 M
730 W</p>

<p>SAT II: 720 Lit
590 Math 2</p>

<p>ACT: 33 Composite
35 English
29 Math
36 Reading
30 Science</p>

<p>D2</p>

<p>PSAT 236</p>

<p>SAT I (old): 760 V
710 M</p>

<p>SAT I (new): 730 CR
730 M
770 W</p>

<p>SAT II: 770 Lit
670 Math 2</p>

<p>ACT: 33 Composite
36 English
31 Math
36 Reading
28 Science</p>

<p>And here are my questions:</p>

<p>1) Should they submit the ACT or the SAT scores? Do you ever submit both, or do you always submit just one of the tests? If you send in just the ACT scores instead of the SAT I scores, do you still need to send in the SAT II scores?</p>

<p>2) Should they retake the ACT to pull up the scores that are in the 20s? Or is the composite score the most important score?</p>

<p>3) D1 messed up badly the SAT II Math 2, and d2 didn't do so well either. (They probably should have taken Math 1 instead.) Both ds are planning on taking the SAT II US History in the fall and expect to do well on it. When you send in your SAT II scores, can you pick and choose which ones to send in, or do they all go? In other words, can they just send in the SAT II Lit and US History scores, and not the math 2? Should they retake the SAT II Math 2? Or should they take the Math 1 in addition to the US history in the fall?</p>

<p>4) Should they retake SAT I?</p>

<p>For background, they both plan on applying RD to an assortment of highly selective LACs. (They plan on going to different schools, but will figure that out once they see where they get in.) Their projected major is film. Unfortunately, their GPAs are not stellar -- approx. 3.5 or so unweighted -- which doesn't look so good against their SAT/ACT scores. Oh well. However, their high school is a selective "honors" school, with all "enriched/honors" courses.</p>

<p>Whatever help/advice/insights any of you can give us will be most appreciated. Without a guidance counselor to consult, it's a bit tricky to figure out what needs to be done.</p>

<p>Many thanks.</p>

2

<p>Just my opinion but if they were D's scores (and they almost are, insert 32 for 33, and 1470 for 1450 or 1460), I'd have D1 retake the Math IIc, and she'd be done.</p>

3

<p>I'm with c-mudge on the retake question. Prospective film majors are not generally judged on their math scores, but if D1 does a bit better next time it will strengthen her app. Based on their majors and intended schools, I wouldn't retake ACT or SAT I, as it seems to me that the LACs best-known for film are selective (Wesleyan, Vassar, Bard, Occidental. . .among others), but not among the very most selective LACs, like Amherst, Swarthmore and Williams. Your Ds stats look good for that first group.</p>

<p>As for the reporting question, the results on both tests for both girls are very strong and will reinforce each other, so I guess I would submit both. You could make a case for submitting just the ACT, as the subscores make the most of their strengths, but I'd go for both. </p>

<p>BTW - what schools are your Ds looking at?. Have they found any safety-level schools they like? I've not looked into this question for prospective film students, and it seems to me they tend to look at universities. Loyola Marymount comes to mind, but that is a uni, and I'm thinking that the film school may be tougher to get into than other schools there.</p>

4

<p>Check out the schools to which your Ds might think about applying to. SAT 2s may not be required at all or just two SAT 2s may be required. If so, don't worry about the Math 2C retake. You can't pick and choose with the SAT 2s when it comes to the report that goes to the schools. All scores are reported--but then all scores may not be counted by the school.</p>

<p>As for taking Math 1C instead of 2C, all the kids say that the curve in 1C is brutal compared to 2C. It may be an easier test, but it is harder to get the high scores. </p>

<p>I would retake the SAT 1s--not that your Ds' scores are low, but that they may go into the 1500 range (old scale) on a retake, just because your Ds are more familiar with the new test. If you are talking about applying to highly selective schools, I'd try to put the best package together.</p>

5

<p>Thanks, everyone, for your advice. Although my daughters don't want to, they'll probably retake the SAT I and also the Math 2C, throwing in a US History Sat II. Does anyone think it necessary for them to retake the ACT?</p>

<p>As for their prospective schools, Reidm, you've pretty much read their minds: Wesleyan, Vassar, Bard, Occidental. One d is also very much enamored of Pomona. They will also apply to NYU and USC because of their preeminence in film. They prefer not, however, to get a conservatory degree (BFA) since they would like to have a more broad-based education.</p>

<p>Safety-level schools are a real problem, so please, if anyone has any advice on that, we'd be much obliged! Our state university offers nothing in film. We are considering American U, Denison, Chapman, Florida State, but have not visited them and do not know much about them. Anybody know anything about these schools? We visited Ithaca, but they didn't like it. We really, really need help to find a safety that they like! </p>

<p>Both girls are really bright, capable, and extraordinarily creative kids, out-of-the-box thinkers who unfortunately have had trouble applying themselves in high school in areas that do not interest them; hence, their below-par GPA, which, I am afraid, will be interpreted by the adcoms as "bright but lazy." However, they are passionate and hard working when it comes to what they love, which is film/English/the arts/history -- i.e., the humanities -- and have an impressive portfolio to show for it.</p>

<p>Eager, and thankful, for more input!</p>

6

<p>I don't think 3.5 unweighted is a deal breaker at any college, especially if the rest of the "package" shines. Plus, they're SATI scores are very good, no need to retake. I could live with the SATII scores as well, but if it bothers them they should try another subject. I don't see their math scores as hurting them.</p>

<p>My advice would be to stop worrying about the scores and GPA and start concentrating on putting together knockout wow-em applications. These girls seem to have the right stuff and will have to think about how best to present themselves in their essays, resumes, portfolios -- the subjective side of the application.</p>

<p>For a safety-ish school, take a look at Skidmore and Hampshire and for another match, Barnard. Since all women's schools are absent from their list, I'm guessing that these have already been nixed. If not, think about Smith and Holyoke. (I know Barnard is all female, but its overlap with Columbia, makes it less so.)</p>

7

<p>You didn't list the writing score with ACT -- many colleges will accept the ACT with writing in lieu of SAT I + SAT II -- but without the writing many colleges will still require SAT I and/or II. So in terms of the retake ACT question -- the scores are fine, but without the writing the ACT can not be reliably substituted for SATs.</p>

8

<p>They haven't gotten back their writing scores on the ACT. They should receive later this month or next month (they took the ACT in June).</p>

9

<p>ML - Without knowing your daughters it's tough to zero in on less-selective choices for them, though looking at schools in industry towns makes a lot of sense. Today, I guess I would look at Toronto after LA and New York.</p>

<p>But personally, I'm not convinced that high schoolers should focus on a single career interest when choosing a college, so I would shy away from schools where film is a strong department and other departments are just so-so. Chapman is one school that appears to fall into that category. (I've heard better things about the general academics at Loyola Marymount.) All this supports your Ds basic strategy of looking for film majors (or minors) at LACs with strong academics across the board.</p>

<p>But if they are both film or bust, the College of Santa Fe is another school to look at. Their Moving Image Arts department has ten faculty members. . .pretty good-sized for a small college, and I know of at least two underacheiving high schoolers that went there and ended up with solid jobs in the movie business. </p>

<p>The other angle of course is to identify as safeties moderately selective LACs with strong fine arts and English departments, and point toward graduate film programs. I think this is a viable strategy for students whose interest in film is academic or in scriptwriting. . .less so for budding directors and editors. During undergrad, your Ds can write scripts, shoot video and try for industry internships. Kenyon is one school that comes to mind here.</p>

10

<p>A contrarian voice here--I think it would be a total waste of time, effort and money to repeat any of the tests. ANY of them.</p>

<p>Your girls, bless them, have plenty of test evidence to show they are qualified to attend any school they want. I don't believe there is one LAC of any sort where a rejection would be made on the basis of one SAT Math II score--that's simply ridiculous.</p>

<p>Why not spend the time/effort/money working on essays, and researching the schools in depth? That way your Ds will a) apply to the schools with the best "fit" and b) wind up presenting the very best, most complete, and appealing application package to those schools.
IMO the return on the investment would likely be much greater.</p>