help undergrad freshman with Graduate school plans and GRE Physics, Mathematics plans

Graduate School
1

<p>Please read the details, it is relevant.</p>

<p>I just finished high school.. I am going to start Electrical and Electronics Engineering course in a crap university, I neither like the university nor the subject, but this is the best I can get as there is no other option in my country and I don't have sufficient savings to study abroad....</p>

<p>I want to go to graduate school (preferably top) in USA, I am interested in renewable energy, thats the field I will be aiming at.... I am willing and motivated to do the hard work in the undergraduate level to keep my GPA among the top of the class and definately above 3.8....</p>

<p>Apart from the fact that I am undertaking a degree from a very low ranking (5600+ world ranking) uni, I will also need full funding. ..</p>

<p>To make my application stand out I am planning to take GRE Physics and Mathematics subject tests apart from GRE reasoning test.. As my major will be in Engineering I don't think my uni courses will cover the GRE Physics and Mathematics syllabus, so apart from uni work I have to do a lot of Physics and Mathematics self teaching..... I am comfortable with self teaching and I might have a few helping hands so I think it will be managable, I am very interested in Maths and Physics so I won't be doing it solely for the marks, I love to study Physics and Maths, If I had the choice I would major in Physics....</p>

<p>Sorry for the essay, but I think I needed to explain the whole situatioin,</p>

<h1>What would you suggest me to be successful in undergraduate level apart from hard work and keeping high GPA?</h1>

<h1>What are GRE Mathematics and Physics like? How are they for non Physics or Mathematics graduates?</h1>

<h1>I have about 4 and a half years before I graduate, what should I do to have the best shot at competative graduate schools with funding?</h1>

<h1>What would you advice me to do?</h1>

<h1>Is high school grades/gpa relevant to graduate school admission? I have been suffering from depression for the last 12 months or so and I don't think I will achieve the grades I am capable of achieving.. The depression was academic related, it was because I couldn't get the best of undergraduate education because of money (there is hardly any scholarship that covers full costs at undergrad level), when all of my classmates have already got a place in USA/Canada/UK unis, academics was everything to me and after I came face to face with the reality I couldn't accept it, I felt like a failure, and it felt like I would never be able to fulfill my dreams...</h1>

<p>Thank you
(hope I have posted in the proper forum)</p>

2

<p>please need some advice… :)</p>

3

<p>Short answers:

  1. Research.
  2. They are standardized tests. You should start training for them early, but not before something like six months before you intend to take the tests.
  3. Research.
  4. Research. Also try to develop personal relationships with at least a couple of professors, because you need recommendations from them, and the better they know you, the stronger the letters will generally be.
  5. No.</p>
4

<p>thank you…</p>

5

<p>Let me expand a bit.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>US professors are unlikely to know how difficult any given GPA is to achieve at your institute, so while poor GPA will definitely hurt you, a fantastic GPA might not by itself be a great asset. In addition, many Asian people get ridiculously good GRE scores, so even if you got perfect scores, they would not, again, separate you from the others. What is valued greatly, however, is research experience, especially if it leads to publications. Research is also a great way of getting good recommendation letters.</p></li>
<li><p>They are multiple-answer speed tests, which test less deep understanding and more quick calculation. I personally have taken only the physics test, and it was mostly about memorizing formulae and doing tricks like taking limits and checking units. This is good news for you, because it means that even if your physics understanding would not be at the same level as physics majors, you can still effectively train for the test. However, as I said, you should not worry about it for a couple of years. The best preparation you can do now is to study the basic physics well. I would guess the same applies to math test. Study the basics well. </p></li>
<li><p>& 4. You are competing against thousands of Asian people who have great GPA and test scores, so you also need both, but they are by themselves not enough. Do whatever you can to get research experience.</p></li>
<li><p>Still, no. The graduate admissions forms are not going to ask for high school grades, and you are not expected to get a recommendation from a high school teacher. Do well in college, and no one will know. Do not feel inferior, people bloom academically at different ages.</p></li>
</ol>

6

<p>I forgot to mention that you should absolutely study English as much as you can. To me your writing skill seem fine, but I’m not a native speaker and therefore not a good judge. In addition to reading and writing, you should make sure your listening and speaking skills are good, too. Listening is easy to train by watching English-language movies and TV series without subtitles, but speaking can be more tricky. Try to enroll in courses, or find a native speaker or other expert with whom to train. The TOEFL is not particularly difficult, but it has the potential to completely ruin your application.</p>

7

<p>Thanks for the the expansion… :P</p>

<p>1,3&4. Research experience will be hard to get, but I will try my best… The ranking of the uni I am going to is that low because research is very low… 3rd world countries’ universities are not great for research, :frowning: , I have to look for opportunities though…I will do whatever possible to get close to the professors and get some good reccomendations…</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Thats good to know, :)</p></li>
<li><p>great … :)</p></li>
</ol>

8

<p>I have 6 months before I start uni, in this time I am reviewing all basic mathematics and redoing problematic topics…</p>

9

<p>I’m going to start off saying that I am not familiar with the physics or math subject GREs. However, the material on subject GREs, although standardized, cannot be learned by self-teaching only six months before the test itself. Subject GREs cover a wide range of topics within the field – many courses worth – making it difficult to learn all the material on your own. You might be able to self-teach PART of the test, but I doubt you will be successful teaching yourself everything you need to know.</p>

<p>Next, as William points out, test scores are not as important in the US as they are in many other countries. That said, they WILL be used to gauge certain things about you, especially since you are an international student: your English (TOEFL), your ability to read and understand complex passages (verbal GRE), and your ability to do basic math (quantitative GRE). Solid general GRE scores can tell the admissions committee that the rest of your application is worth looking at, but they won’t be a real admissions factor. Subject GRE scores will be a different matter, if your programs require them. I don’t see any need to prepare for two of them (although I may be wrong) as much as it will be important for you to do well on the one most relevant to your field so that you can show mastery of the necessary material. </p>

<p>If you get good enough GRE scores, then the REAL determining factors come into play: recommendations and research. US universities understand that internationals, especially in certain countries, do not have the same research opportunities that undergraduates in the US have; however, they need some kind of indication whether an applicant understands research and has the aptitude for it. They will learn this through your statement of purpose, where you describe your skills and experience, and your recommendations. (Note: when the time comes, you should talk with your professors to make sure they understand what US universities want in a letter.) If you can get any kind of research outside of the classroom, it will be huge. </p>

<p>I commend you for thinking of this early. Keep in mind that you have three or four years before you start the application process. You will have setbacks along the way. Just keep moving toward your goals.</p>

10

<p>MWFN is absolutely correct in that six months is not enough to self-learn the material covered in the physics GRE, but my primary point was that knowing the material will not guarantee a good score. There is no time to do the problems like one would do them normally: you can either remember the formula or deduct the answer by removing wrong choices. Trying to do the exam the “correct” way will not result in a good score, unfortunately. </p>

<p>Therefore, for the exam (though definitely not the graduate work) it is, in my opinion, the best to learn the material relatively well and focus on the exam format and previous questions. However, since you have the time, I am not saying you should not learn the material itself very well. Unfortunately, it might be pretty tough to perform well in your studies AND learn physics at the same time.</p>

11

<p>@Momwaitingfornew
Thank you for the detailed advice…</p>

<p>I need full funding and it is one of the reasons I am planning to sit for 2 subject tests…</p>

<p>self teaching won’t be easy, but I will take help from anyone I can, a friend of mine is going to Oxford University to study Physics, he would help me with Physics, and I have a relative, he is a Computer Science graduate from Carnegie Melon University at Qatar, He is very good at maths, I will take help from him for Mathematics… I am asking for advice and planning 4 and a half years before the application process so that I face minimum problems when the time comes…
The Physics professor of my uni did his MSc and Phd from USA, I think he will know about the process, but in any case I will try to befriend the professors early on and give them enough info to help them write a proper recommendation for me…
Research experiance will be a very difficult to get but I will try my best…
What about industry experience??? Does that count?? I can probably get some industry experience…</p>

<p>@William713</p>

<p>Thanks agian… really appriciate it…</p>

<p>I am going to start learning academic english very soon, My school was an English speaking one so I no a bit of speaking, I will cover defeciencies slowly… :)</p>

<p>You said, “it might be pretty tough to perform well in your studies AND learn physics at the same time” . . .</p>

<p>Well for the first four semester, my courses will be mostly Physics, Mathematics and some electronics, so technically I don’t have to devote extra time time for Physics and Mathematics,…</p>

12

<p>This doesn’t make any sense to me:
I need full funding and it is one of the reasons I am planning to sit for 2 subject tests…</p>

<p>How does 2 subject tests lead to full funding?</p>

<p>I also don’t understand why you aren’t studying Physics</p>

13

<p>BrownParent:</p>

<p>I am by no means an expert of samir9’s thoughts, but I did (and to some extent do still) believe that doing well in both physics and math subject tests would be considered more positive in physics admissions than doing well in only the physics test. After all, math gre measures basic calculation skills, which are very important in most physics work, and, coincidentally, used very heavily in physics. </p>

<p>Funnily enough, now that I look at the math GRE test, I think I could do about as well in it percentile-wise than in physics test. (I’m a physicist) It’s seems not to be real math as in writing proofs, more like remembering definitions. </p>

<p>And it is also easy to think that being viewed as a particularly strong candidate will lead to better funding. Although samir9 should note that almost all physics PhD positions in the US are funded, and almost none of the Master’s positions are.</p>

<p>The last issue might be difficult to understand for people used to the US system. In many countries students can not freely choose their majors, but instead they are admitted to undergraduate major programs, in a way US graduate students are admitted to graduate major programs. And in countries which are looking to develop quickly, such as the India region (to my understanding), there are very little pure science starting spots and a huge number of engineering starting spots. Therefore making getting to study physics extremely difficult. If this is the case of samir9, I think choosing EE is a good idea, because it provides him with sufficient mathematical training and good understanding of some areas of foundational physics.</p>

14

<p>@BrownParent:
Well 2 subjects don’t guarentee full funding, but it will make me a better candidate among asian students… most asian students will have 1 subject score…</p>

<p>I can’t study Physics because it is not offered at the uni, Pure science subjects are only offered in 2-3 public unis, and I am not elegible for public university entrance examination because I studied school under British curriculum… Private unis don’t offer pure science because not many people will major in pure science or mathematics because the only career oppurtunity for science graduates here is teaching/banking… In any case social stature of science in my country is rubbish… If someone hears that I am majoring in Physics, instead of appreciating the difficulty of the subject most people will say, ooh, so you couldn’t pass engineering entrance examination, blah blah… Personally I don’t care what people say, but my parents are gonna make a big fuss of it, so given the choice between Computer Engineering and Electrical Engineering, I chose electrical engineering because it have more Physics and Mathematics than the CE course…
Its pathetic, but I have no choice… My parents tried their best they sent me to British school even though it was beyond their capability… so that I can get bachelor’s from good unis, they thought there will be scholaraships to cover full costs, unfortunately reality is otherwise… Internet is a new thing here and my parents mostly got information from friends and relatives who went abroad 20-30 years ago, and they said there are loads of scholarship etc. etc. so…
I still can’t accept fully that I cannot study what I like…
(P:S, my country is Bangladesh)</p>

15

<p>@William713: I have adressed BrownParent parts of your post in the post directly above this one…</p>

<p>Can you explain the funding of Masters a bit?? You said none of the masters places are funded??</p>

16

<p>samir9:</p>

<p>I admit I have no first-hand knowledge of US Master’s programs, because I’m applying to a PhD. However, from what I have heard here, it seems that while the universities pay the tuition and a stipend for PhD students, Master’s students have to pay both themselves. So, instead of getting paid for studying (PhD), Master’s student have to pay the tuition AND living. So, unless you can secure a scholarship from your home country or another source, you should probably not consider a Master’s degree.</p>

<p>However, I still repeat the disclaimer above: I don’t actually know anything about Master’s studies in the US. It is possible some positions are funded and/or provide a tuition waiver.</p>

17

<p>Masters funding/tuition waiver is rare, but does happen. PhD funding through tuition waiver and TA or RA jobs is more the norm.</p>

18

<p>I have heard that one can enter directly for PhD and can get a Masters degree after doing some courses and certain exams on they way towards PhD degree???</p>

19

<p>Samir, in the US, almost all PhD programs are fully funded and very few Master’s programs are. (You do not need a master’s degree before you enter a PhD program unless your country has only a three-year bachelor’s degree system; in that case, you should get a master’s in your home country.) Master’s degree students might get help after a semester or two by securing a TA position, but that is neither guaranteed or completely self-supporting. PhD students, particularly in the sciences, get full tuition, health insurance, fees, and a stipend (enough to live on) in exchange for doing research; this is usually guaranteed for at least 4 years. The PhD funding packages are not need-based; everyone entering the program gets the same thing, except in rare cases of merit.</p>

<p>Next, the subject GRE is not the same as taking the subject SAT. I doubt that you can get a high score on the physics GRE having taking only one course, which is why I’m skeptical that you can learn all the material on your own. It’s the kind of test that measures the knowledge you would get having majoring in it (or having taken several advanced courses). The same is true of math. You’ll have to know topics that go beyond the three-course sequence of calculus. </p>

<p>The good news is that engineering requires a lot of physics and math courses. If you have the opportunity, make sure you take as many advanced courses as you can. </p>

<p>As for believing that taking two subject tests is the way to admission/funding: two won’t help you any more than one. One subject test tells the university how well you were taught specific material, and if you do well on one, then they will assume that your other courses were taught just as well. In the US, the transcript (what you took and how well you did) is generally more important than test scores. Even then, to get into a top US program, the grades are not as important as experience gained doing research. </p>

<p>Right now, you need to concentrate on doing well in your program, getting to know your professors (if possible), exploring areas of your field so you’ll have a good idea how you want to specialize within it, and finding jobs/research opportunities that advance your knowledge.</p>