<p>I posted this over in the AP test section, but I'm hoping it will get some good responses here, too...</p>
<p>Here is my dilemma, although I don't know if anyone will think it is much of one. Son goes to a HS where AP classes are only offered senior year. He took a full load as a senior and is doing well. His HS puts no demands on the students for actually taking the AP tests at the end of the year. The good news is that son has already been accepted to the college of his choice, a super selective school that will not accept two of his AP tests (Calculus AB and AP Govt) for any kind of credit. He is willing and motivated to study for the other two AP exams, where a 5 can give him credit at that school, but he is unmotivated to take the other two; he thinks it is senseless and a waste of time. </p>
<p>To me, the idea of taking an AP class is to prepare yourself for college level classes. I am concerned that by skipping these, he will be going to a competitive school with very few AP tests under his belt, compared to everyone else. I also think that he should take them out of respect to his teachers, since they wrote recommendations for him, and to challenge himself by taking the test as a way to practice for similar college finals. But it's hard to argue with his logic, which is that he will spend more time on the tests which could count toward college credit. My attitude is that he is studying for finals in these same classes anyway, so why not? </p>
<p>So what do all you experienced people think? Son is willing to listen to any rational arguments in favor of taking the tests.</p>
<p>I agree with your son's thinking. I can think of no reason for a student to take an AP test in the spring of their senior year if they can't use the credit. Since he knows where he's going, he's in a position to know which could help him and it does seem to make sense to focus on two. You can't predict the future - it's possible he could transfer to a school that WOULD accept more credits - but he's certain of his next step and should plan for that. He will miss out on being designated an AP scholar is he has less than 3 APs with scores of 3 or higher, but I can say other than a piece of paper it has no affect on my son's life (it IS nice to have on an application if you achieve it junior year).</p>
<p>I do see the problem - loyalty to his teachers - and wonder what will happen in our own district. Until recently, the district paid for the exams. Now that families have to pay, fewer are taking them (especially if they don't expect to receive college credit), I wonder if teachers are less inclined to prepare the students (there's no check on whether they're following the AP curriculum if no ones taking the exams, and in an era of budget-tightening (read the articles about schools basically offering math, English and p.e.) a weakened AP program looks like a reasonable place to cut.</p>
<p>The tests really won't do much for him if they don't count toward college. He took the course, he knows the information, the test is just gravy. If I were in the situation, I'd rather focus my energy on the tests that count. If you still want him to get comfortable with the AP format, he can use AP test booklets from Cliff notes, or the old exams the college board releases each year- that way he can practice when he has some free time, and focus on the other tests now.</p>
<p>I think if you really are interested in spending $164 for two tests that he won't need for or in college- sponsor another student that might otherwise not be able to take the tests</p>
<p>I agree with the other posters. If he does well on the finals, there is no real reason for him to take the tests unless he wanted to use the AP scores not for credit but for placing into a more advanced class in the same subjects. However, with AP Calc-B, he would be better off repeating the class in college.</p>
<p>I would argue your son should take the tests but not for the reasons you are worried about (everyone else is right in saying the "experience" doesn't matter). I personally have always thought that there is a certain amount of academic dishonesty in schools where everyone is enrolled in an "AP History" class or some such but no one actually takes the test because that "AP" designation would give a false advantage over other students when it comes to admissions. But that's me...</p>
<p>My S chose not to take one of the five AP tests this year - partly because it's his least favorite subject (Brit Lit), partly because he took it last semester. We now know which school he's going to but when he signed up we checked the five potential colleges and discovered at best he might test out of a writing class. But we agreed it would be better for him to take whatever college writing course the college deemed appropriate. Stargirl - in my S's school by senior year it's AP or regular; no more honors level. This makes it tough for the bright students - even if they don't particularly want to do AP the regular level is too easy and their classmates won't be at their level. So we considered AP in terms of the level of difficulty more than what it would do for him re grade point or admissions. The reason colleges like to see AP classes is because they want students who want to challenge themselves. And in fact our NMF S took a regular writing class this semester. The $86 will be better spent on college expenses!</p>
<p>Paying 160 dollars for two practice tests for finals (which is what this seems to be) seems unnecessary to me, especially in senior year. I would let him relax from a workload that, if it got him into a super-selective, must be rigorous.</p>
<p>However, if I were him, I would give conisderation to the two teachers and ask if they prefer him taking the tests since they wrote recs. Still, I see more advantages to not taking them. Even if 160 dollars is small in relation to many other college expenses, it's still a nice chunk of money to be spent on partially furnishing a dorm room or perhaps a book or two.</p>
<p>One of our high school's AP teachers wants his students to take the AP exam so badly that he offers one point added to their final average if they take the exam. Since his class is extremely challenging, most kids opt for taking it. That one point sometimes changes their grade and GPA significantly on a scale in which the value of an A varies. (96-100 = 4.0, 95=3.75, 94=3.5, 93=3.0) BTW, his students always "shine" on the exam and make themselves and their teacher proud. It's almost as if he wrote the test.</p>
<p>Your son's logic makes sense. The AP tests do sort of "validate" what he learned, but if he was diligent in those classes anyway, taking them won't do anything for him (esp if the school doesn't take credits). I don't think you should be worrying about the number of AP tests he has taken in comparison to other kids. Additionally, like you said, he'll already be studying for finals. But then he can take the school final as a way to wrap up his year, rather than take 2 tests on the same topics (for extra money, I might add).</p>
<p>I agree with waruv, that if you want him to take the tests for his teachers, ask him to speak personally with them first. They probably won't mind at all. They don't really get anything out of it. The money for scores of 5 go to the departments (usually, I think), not to individual teachers.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the quick responses so far! </p>
<p>I appreciate the posters who have raised the question of the logic of paying for extra tests. I should have mentioned that our school district covers the majority of the cost of these.</p>
<p>lefthandofdog, I had already brought up the transfer issue to son. As you might imagine, it didn't make any impression. Ditto for AP scholars since he's already into his school!</p>
<p>I do feel that there are some ethical considerations here (obligation to the teachers, as some others have also mentioned - and he does plan to talk to his teachers about this) , but would argue against the idea that it's dishonest to gain an advantage in admissions from just taking the class and not the test. After all, the college does see the grades the student has earned in that class, which counts for something in a competitive HS. And the college couldn't very well be upset that he doesn't take exams for which they give no advanced standing or credit.</p>
<p>Our HS has announced that they are moving in the direction of requiring students who have taken the class to take the exam ( and they will subsidize the entire cost for those who can't pay). We are also expanding our entire AP program and making more AP classes available to the younger students. I'm sure that contributed to my feeling that son is taking the easy road. </p>
<p>I'd welcome any additional comments or opinions. They are all much appreciated.</p>
<p>There is nothing dishonest about not taking the test. If the school does not require it, there is no reason to feel bad about not taking it.</p>
<p>At our HS teachers that want their students to take the test give an automatic 100 on final to all the students taking AP test. Others have to take the class final for a grade.</p>
<p>I agrree with the majority opinion. And I disagree with the academic dishonesty comment. First of all, for a senior, it doesn't matter because they've already been accepted into college. And for younger students, well, the colleges know they're not sending the scores. If they choose to make an issue of it, they have the information.</p>
<p>I think, overall, this is not an issue to get into contention with your son about--he's got to start making these kinds of decisions himself, anyway.</p>
<p>DD took AP tests sophomore and junior year. Then, she was accepted and now attends an elite LAC where they don't accept them for hours, but may look at them in terms of placement. She was scheduled to take 5 tests her senior year, and bowed out of all except the one in her chosen field, so that she could use it for placement, if needed. No one has questioned why. No problem. And her grades in college indicate that taking or not taking the tests really didn't matter at all. And a couple of her teachers wanted her to take the tests because they knew she would perform well, and that looks good for them. Also, the amount of 4's and 5's do affect the amount of money they get from the state, but one kid won't affect it much at all. And they understood when she told them about her reasons. In fact, she still is in contact with them, and they also wrote her recommendations. Instead, she focused her energies on studying for a State social studies competition, and won state!</p>
<p>I've been wondering about this as well. The only difference being my school district pays for the exams and makes students take them. The final grade is affected by whether or not you take the exam, although it doesn't matter if you do poorly on it. I feel like it's a waste of time/money but I don't really have a choice about taking it. Would it be unethical to not even bother trying on the exams that I know I won't get credit for?</p>
<p>In TX the AP classes have separate budgetary funding. The amount is reflected by good performance - bonus money. This means that an AP teacher who needs something extra for her class can purchase these through the AP funds, not the departmental budget. Our department did not have to buytape recorders for the foreign language AP classes, central office did it using AP funds. The kids need them to practice the oral portion of the test so they aren't thrown taking that part of the test. An English AP teacher may need some additional reading material, etc.</p>