@FloridaLaw2020: Spanish fluency/proficiency is by far the most sought after language skill in the legal field, although Korean & Vietnamese also appear often in legal ads seeking licensed attorneys and for paralegals as well.
A foreign language should be considered as a second major.
I cannot imagine Criminology as being helpful in the legal field other than in law enforcement.
Always be cautious about accepting advice about law school from someone who is not a lawyer and has never attended law school.
@crankyoldman: I understand that you have about 30 years experience in law in the Air Force & now in a midwestern state agency. While I respect your experience & input, I disagree with almost all of your advice. For example, in post #38 you assert that “precision” is what is expected of lawyers.
While “precision” is expected of paralegals & accountants, it is the opposite of what makes up the study & practice of law.
Perhaps your experience is in very routine & mundane legal matters where repetitious accuracy is all that is required. Adoptions, name changes, family law, routine bankruptcies & most collection matters fall into this paradigm, for example. Although legally required to be done by an attorney in most jurisdictions, these largely ministerial acts really only require a high school degree & some experienced guidance. Some jurisdictions are now creating special training programs to allow non-lawyers to perform these tasks.
The internet is the Wild West, where there are plenty of opinions, but regrettably most are uninformed opinions, like yours. It’s clear you’ve never filed a pleading, argued a motion, or written a appellate brief. How would you know what makes up the study and practice of law, having never attended law school or practiced law?
While you seek to denigrate my experience, you have none of your own. Stick to topics where you actually know what you’re talking about; law clearly isn’t one of them.
@crankyoldman @Publisher thank you very much for all the information. I greatly appreciate it.
As I mentioned, I put foreign language as my second choice major - if I’m not admitted to criminology. However, I am already fluent in Russian and I’m pretty good at Spanish. Russian is the only major I could do and still graduate on time (because of the credits I already have). So I’m not sure if that would actually be beneficial. Unless, I were to get a translation certificate or something similar.
@Demosthenes49 thanks for pointing that out. For some reason, I’ve always thought that no one looks at your undergrad degree once you have your law degree. In other words, do legal employers really care about your undergrad major?
@evergreen5 thank you for the advice. I was thinking about becoming a paralegal, as a backup plan. Perhaps, the criminology could be at least somewhat useful for a paralegal… Especially if I were to work for a firm that specializes in criminal law. But I’m not really sure…
@twoinanddone of course, I don’t expect to go to court every week. I don’t mind working in an office and doing the paperwork at all - I just don’t want to only do that. However, that’s how big law firm lawyers tend to describe their jobs. I even know of some corporate lawyers who are trying to switch to litigation but failing due to the widespread interest in it.
I like working with people. This is the reason why I am trying to find an area of law that would allow me to attend more meetings, go to court, communicate with clients, etc. I figured that smaller firms might provide me with more such opportunities - especially as a “beginner lawyers.” I’m very interested in immigration law, government law, and maybe family law. Thank you pointing that out, nonetheless. I’ll keep in it mind.
@FloridaLaw2020: Since you have a strong interest in criminal law & the study of criminology, knowledge of Spanish should be quite helpful in most jurisdictions. In the recent past (pre-current presidential administration), most immigration matters arose out of an undocumented individual entering the criminal justice system in state courts which referred this person to the federal immigration court/legal system. Thus, criminal law & immigration matters are often intertwined & involve the same client.
I doubt that Russian will be helpful. Most educated Russians are fluent or highly proficient in English.
Methinks you misread the CW (current wisdom?).
The only correct answer is that ANY major will get you to law school. But then among the ‘any’, liberal arts majors are preferred over so-called vocational majors (like criminology). (Any LS admissions advisor will tell you that.) What that means is that liberal arts majors – English can be excellent – will have a leg up on the Crim major with similar numbers. OTOH, a 3.9 Crim major will easily beat an 3.6 English (or Phil) major. Numbers matter above all else. Undergrad major is a minor factor for admissions.
That being said, on average, someone with excellent critical thinking/analysis skills will do better as a 1L than will someone lacking such skills. Someone who spent a couple of years in undergrad parsing Sonnets can start out strong vs, someone who was a generic ‘Studies’ major. The latter can readily ramp up and finish LS strong, but 1L grades count a lot for jobs, so starting strong is important.
But even beyond jobs, top 1L grades can be necessary to maintain merit scholarships at lower level law schools. A bad first semester could tank the scholarship. (not true at the top say xx law schools, however.)
@FloridaLaw2020: In your most recent post, you wrote that you would consider working as a paralegal prior to attending law school.
Large NYC & DC law firms offer outstanding well organized paralegal employment programs which usually request a two year commitment. While starting pay is in the low to mid forties, paralegals are paid overtime & can more than double their base salary if involved in, for example, an active litigation matter.
In the criminal realm, DA offices & PD offices will place your resume at the top of the pile if Spanish fluency or proficiency is claimed.
CW=conventional wisdom. Again, criminology is not a “vocational” major; you are clearly confusing it with criminal justice/crime scene investigation; it is a well-established branch of sociology. Maybe this will help:
https://www.thebalancecareers.com/difference-between-criminology-and-criminal-justice-3975265
Again, proceed with caution when the advice provided regarding legal employment is from someone who is has never attended law school, is not a lawyer, and has never practiced law. As in, they’ve never worked in a DA or PD office, so would have no idea what the hiring practices were.
I just did a 10 minute google search of “LSAT scores by major”. Criminal Justice came up as the lowest scoring major on all 4 studies–the most recent of which was published in the ABA (American Bar Association) Journal in April, 2014 and included 46 major classifications.
One of the surveys included both Criminal Justice & Criminology as separate majors. They were the bottom two majors by LSAT score with Criminal Justice beating the bottom ranked Criminology by one half point (146 versus 145.5 average LSAT score. 151 to 152 tends to be the median score on the LSAT nationally.)
I don’t want to list all 46 majors included in the ABA published study of 2014 in which Criminology finished last by average LSAT score, so I will list the other study which included 29 majors & was updated twice with Criminology finishing last in all 3 time periods for this study.
Physics/Math
Philosophy/Religion
Economics
Int’l Relations
Chemistry
Government
Anthropology/Geography
History
English
Biology
Other social science
Engineering
Foreign Languages
Finance
Computer Science
Psychology
Accounting
Political Science
Communication Arts
Marketing/Real Estate
Liberal Arts
Management
Sociology/Social Work
Business Administration
Health Professions
Education
No major given
Prelaw
Criminology
Source: LSAT Scores of Economics Majors, Journal of Economic Education.
First study was published in Fall 1998, followed by updates in 2003-2004 & again in 2008-2009.
The ABA Journal published LSAT Scores By Majors in April. 2014 using 46 majors. Criminology finished last.
As the old saying does, ‘Facts not in evidence, counselor.’ (you don’t know me and have no idea what/when i confuse stuff, so don’t go down that path just bcos my opinion differs from yours!)
is from an anonymous internet board. (I fixed it for you.)
Op: Do your own research. Ask prelaw advisors at your undergrad. Ask law school counselors, many of whom are former LS adcoms. Ask current adcoms. Or better yet, spend 5-10 seconds on google:
Correction regarding my post #49 above. “Criminology”, not “Criminal Justice”, came up dead last on all four studies of LSAT score by major.
Criminal Justice was included in one study & finished next to last ahead of only Criminology.
Thank you again for the information. But, like I mentioned, I’m actually taking the LSAT this summer - before I take any criminology courses. So, if anything, my LSAT should be more similar to the international relations majors.
Good info, nonetheless.
At this point, I really only have 2 major options - criminology or Russian language. Since I’m already fluent in Russian, I’d prefer criminology (so I could actually learn something).
I guess I’m just going to reach out to the admissions counselors of law schools I’m interested in - see what they think of the 2 majors.
BB-thanks for the warning(threat?). Rest assured that I don’t want to go down any path with you. And no, you didn’t fix anything(should I say don’t go down that path with me?). It’s clear that we’ve got multiple posters, yourself included, who have never attended law school, taken the bar exam, or ever practiced law. This, however, does not prevent you from offering advice on any number of topics, including but not limited to the practice of law.
Where is there a major in “Russian language”?. Normally a Russian major would be about half language classes, and half literature classes. If you haven’t read and written widely on Russian literature, you would learn a lot. Generally you would be writing the literature class essays in English, although ability to read very easily in Russian would be a big advantage.