Help! What Should I Do? - Future Law School Student

Graduate School Law School
1

Honestly, I’m kind of lost right now. I’m not really sure if this is the best place to ask this, but…

I’m currently a junior at a pretty well-ranked private university in DC, majoring in International Relations. Before this, I got an Associate’s Degree from a community college in Florida. I transferred to the DC university this fall, and I just finished my first semester.

This first semester helped me realize that I might have made a mistake… First of all, I found that I actually don’t like International Relations. Second, I’m tired of the DC craziness, and I really miss my life in Florida. Third, I just don’t feel like the experience I am getting is worth the tenths of thousands of dollars I am paying.

So, I now started considering transferring once again… I am thinking about transferring to a public university in Florida. This FL university accepts junior/senior transfers, and it’s likely to accept the vast majority of my credits. I should be able to switch majors (to criminology which I am VERY interested in) and still graduate on time. Most importantly, going to this public FL school would cost 10 TIMES LESS than going to the private DC school. And, since I’m hoping to attend law school right after undergrad, saving $50,000 might actually be a pretty good idea.

I’m mostly hesitant because I’m worried of what transferring twice will look like on my law school application… However, for my first transfer, it’s not like I really had a choice of staying (I could not get a Bachelor’s Degree from a community college). I’m also slightly worried about the reputation of the colleges - the DC school is ranked better than the public in FL.

If that makes a difference, I’d like to stay in-state for law school - most likely Stetson, Florida State, or UMiami… Maybe University of Florida. I graduated with a perfect 4.0 GPA from the community college, and I have a 3.95 GPA after my first semester in DC. I have not yet taken LSAT, but I am aiming for at least 160.

Would transferring twice hurt my chances of getting into my top-choice law schools (meaning, Stetson, FSU, UM, UF)? Or do law schools only really care about GPA and LSAT? Should I transfer again and save roughly $50,000? And does where I go for undergrad really matter for law school?

Sorry for such a long post! I appreciate your time and opinions! :-/

2

Transferring wouldn’t hurt you. Only the top 20 National Law schools would care. But those are almost impossible to get into and anyway, you say you are interested in one of the Florida law schools. And if you want to live and work in Florida, it’s better to go to a in state law school and get internship and work experience during law school in state. For the law schools you aspire to, they care most about gpa (which you are doing fine) LSAT and related law work and internship experience. Consider yourself lucky you learned you don’t want international relations before you get too far. And the money saved is a huge benefit. Save that for law school. I think it’s an easy choice for you to by transfer, pursue your passion in criminal justice (which is law related, so good!) and focus on achieving top grades for the remainder of your undergrad and seek a high LSAT and you’ll be fine.

3

Transferring back is fine. Just don’t major in Criminology for law school – its not considered a rigorous major.

Don’t waste that GPA. Aim for a higher LSAT by taking it after you graduate (giving you more time to prepare). Apply broadly and watch the merit money roll in.

P.S. Emory also places well into Florida.

4

@FloridaLaw2020 I forgot to mention above that when you apply to law school you should write a short note explaining why you transferred from your DC school. Just say what you said here—you realized that DC political hustle and bustle was not an appropriate fit and you realized you didn’t want to major in international relations —which was the main reason you chose to transfer to the DC school —and also it did not make economic sense to pay the high cost of tuition there, that the money would be better saved for law school. Law schools may wonder why you transferred and your explanation is perfectly understandable. When explained that way, they won’t care that you transferred back to Florida.

5

@trackmbe3 thank you so much for the advice! It was very helpful and actually made me feel A LOT better. I really appreciate it! If I do end up transferring, I will make sure to explain my situation in the law school application.

In your opinion, is Criminology a good major for law school? I’ve been really struggling to find what to major in - now that I figured out that I don’t want to do International Relations or PoliSci… I am definitely passionate about Criminology, but I’ve already heard a few times that it is not a good major for law school. If not Criminology, I could potentially major in a Language, Linguistics, or History.

6

@bluebayou thank you very much for your comment. I really appreciate the information. I’ll definitely make sure to aim higher for the LSAT - I was going to study the whole winter break and summer break.

If not Criminology, what would you say is a good major for law school? I was also kind of considering majoring in a Language, Linguistics, or History… I’m just not really sure.

7

I don’t think criminology is better or worse than any other major. The best prep for law school is reading a lot of material and writing a lot of papers. If the criminology program has a lot of reading and writing, you’ll be fine. If it doesn’t, make sure you take a lot of English and history courses.

8

@FloridaLaw2020 I think majoring in criminology is fine as long as you make sure that either within that major or the courses you take around it offer sufficient opportunity for you to read and write—-engage your critical thinking, analysis and reasoning skills. Because that is what the LSAT will test you on and what law school will require for you to be successful. Also you will perforrm better in a major you are passionate about —so getting A grades in criminology major is better than lower grades in a major which you are less enthused about.

9

Any of those are excellent. I’m also a fan of philosophy. Excellent readin’ & writin’ and more importantly, critical thinking.

(Crim is fine for an FBI-wannabe, but top law schools look askance at that major since it does not "offer sufficient opportunity for you to read and write—-engage your critical thinking, analysis and reasoning skills. " Even if you take other courses, the major is what stands out since most Adcoms aren’t gonna take the time to go thru your transcript in detail.

10

Agree with some, disagree with some:

  1. Nobody here sits on a law school admissions committee, so pretty tough to say if another transfer will be viewed negatively. That said, your reasons for wanting to transfer back are good; if you don’t enjoy it, and it costs a ton of money, transfer.
  2. You GPA is superb, clearly at a level that will get you into almost any school in the country(including all those Florida schools). But…there’s the LSAT; as your GPA and LSAT are the two main numbers for any law school application, it’s almost impossible to predict where you’ll be competitive until you get that number.
  3. Go to the ABA website; look up law school “Standard 509 Disclosures” and “Employment Outcomes” for each school. While not perfect, these documents will give you a snapshot of what the school is like, and what your job prospects are upon graduation. For example, for its 2017 graduating class, Stetson had 263 graduates, of whom 170 got jobs which required bar passage(in other words, jobs as a lawyer). So 64% of the class got jobs as lawyers-not a very good rate.
  4. Criminology is fine as a major, and is every bit as respected as history, English, etc. It is, however, its own academic discipline, and has very little to do with the criminal law classes you take in law school(and very little to do with being a prosecutor or public defender). It’s worth studying, though, as it’s interesting stuff. And studying criminology doesn’t limit you, at all, to becoming a “FBI-wannbe”; Criminology is a branch of sociology, and all the Ivies offer degrees in sociology; if it’s good enough for them… And as an attorney with decades of experience, there are few, if any, majors that have anything to do with, or will prepare you for, legal writing, which is its own ungainly beast. For example, philosophy is no better than English or history-or criminology, for that matter. And a quick survey of lawyer colleagues-well they majored in everything: political science, history, English, international relations, various foreign languages, etc etc.
  5. You are going to law school to get a job as a lawyer, period. If you don’t want to be a lawyer, don’t go. Don’t fall for the “you can do anything with a law degree”; by and large you can’t. So make sure you want to be a lawyer before enrolling.
11

@twoinanddone @trackmbe3 @bluebayou thank you for your responses. I will definitely keep all your comments in mind. I sent in my transfer application two days ago - putting criminology, foreign language, and history as my top three major choices. So, I guess I will start by seeing which one I get into and then go from there.

@crankyoldman thank you SO much for all the information. It was extremely helpful. I am now spending my winter break studying for the LSAT. I was going to take it in the summer, so then I have good 6 months or so to figure out what I’m doing law school application wise. I graduate undergrad in May 2020, and (if everything works out with the LSAT) going to law school right after. I will make sure to check out the ABA website and look more into the outcomes. But, after living in DC for 9 months, I now realize that I definitely want to stay in Florida for law school. So, I guess my main challenge now is figuring out which in-state law school is right for me. And, thank you for mentioning last point. I honestly could not agree more. I’ve wanted to become a lawyer since I was 12, so I’m definitely in it to actually practice law.

I know that it is a little early to decide, but I was primarily considering doing advocacy… This is what also attracted me to Stetson - USNEWS ranked it #1 for advocacy in the country. Despite its much lower overall ranking, Stetson is also ranked #2 for legal writing.

At the same time, I don’t know how much I want to rely on the ranking. Even though my DC school is pretty well-ranked, I feel like the career opportunities I got at my community college were MUCH better. Perhaps, it is because of that I was happier in Florida.

12

You’ve got plenty of time to make your decisions, but always remember to keep expenses in mind. Also, the USNWR rankings for specific programs(e.g. advocacy) mean zero in the real world. Law is a prestige-driven profession, so when you’re looking for your first job, the name of your school matters more than it ought. What your law school GPA is matters, whether you’re on law review matters, etc-but the USNWR rankings for specific areas mean absolutely nothing(USNWR school rankings for the law schools you mentioned: Florida #41, Florida State#47; Stetson #98). Make your decision based on employability where you want to practice(I’ll admit that I’d be biased toward the Florida state schools both for local reputation and expense to attend).

13

My few bits of advice would be that the LSAT is far more important to law school admissions and merit money than the ACT or SAT were when applying to undergrad. Also, there are very few students applying to even top law schools with 3.95 GPA and a killer LSAT say 170 plus. Finally, where you go to law school will impact your job options later

14

Criminology is not a good major for one intending on attending law school. Google LSAT scores by major & you will see that criminology majors score the lowest of any college major on the LSAT.

Philosophy & history majors–among the majors of interest to you–tend to do well on the LSAT.

Your GPA is outstanding. Although one’s LSAT score is the single most important factor for law school admissions & merit scholarship money, one’s undergraduate GPA is the second most important factor.

Law schools will not care that you transferred twice–unless trying to explain away a low GPA. The only things to worry about are your LSAT score (60%) & your undergraduate GPA (40%). Decent recs & a readable personal statement are expected.

15

With a high GPA (above any particular law school’s median GPA for matriculated students) & a high LSAT score (same standard), you should be admitted with merit scholarship money.

If your undergraduate GPA remains above 3.80 & you score at least in the mid-160s on the LSAT. then you should apply to several Top 14 law schools in addition to your targeted law schools in Florida. Why ? For better employment opportunities after your second year of law school.

P.S. If interested in biglaw, many such firms have raised starting first year salaries to $190,000 plus one or two bonuses a year–often resulting in first year earnings of about $220,000 with annual lockstep progression in base salary thereafter.

16

@crankyoldman thank you for your input. For the longest time, I wanted to go to one of the T14 law schools - mainly because of their prestige and big law firm placements. But I spoke to a few lawyers and did some research which helped me understand that I don’t think I want to work for a big law firm. I’m not interested in working in NY or DC or any other major city (maybe except for Miami). And I don’t want to only sit in an office whole day, looking at papers - even if it pays well.

Instead, I’m interested in actually interacting with clients and going to court. This is what first made me think that advocacy and litigation might be a good idea. I figured one of the in-state schools might be a better fit. Maybe, if I get a good enough LSAT, I could even get something close to a full-tuition scholarship from one of the FL schools.

At this point, I’m mostly looking at Florida State and Stetson - primarily because of their locations, clinics, and externships. I’m also considering UMiami but I’ve heard some “not so great” things about its facilities and overall atmosphere. I’m only hesitant about University of Florida because of its location; it’s pretty much in the middle of nowhere.

17

@Wje9164be thank you for the advice! I’m currently working on my LSAT - hoping to take it in about 6 months. And, as you said, I’ll aim for 170 or so. At this point, I’m pretty sure I don’t want to leave Florida for law school. So, hopefully, I could get some good merit scholarships for my GPA and LSAT.

18

@Publisher thank you for the information. If I do transfer, I will be taking LSAT even before I truly start working on the criminology major (it requires 36 credits, and I’m already fully done with my gen-eds and electives). So, at this point, I guess I’m just trying to finish my senior year of my Bachelor’s Degree, studying something I like - not International Relations I miserably studied for almost a year. I’m more concerned if law schools “don’t like” criminology majors. Meaning, would they look at this major as if it’s a disadvantage?

That makes me feel much better. Thankfully, GPA is not one of my problems. I only have 2 semesters left until I start applying for law schools, so I will just continue trying to get my 3.95 GPA as close to 4.0 as possible.

Thank you for the advice. I will consider applying to some of the T14 schools. However, I spent a semester living in DC, and I frankly feel quite miserable. I really miss Florida - its climate, people, and overall atmosphere. This feeling is kind of difficult to explain. I’m just worried that if I go to one of the top schools (especially if it’s in the northeast), I will feel miserable like this for another 3 years of law school. Besides, I’d like to practice law in Florida, so I thought going to one of the regional schools would be a good idea.

Based on my current research and conversations with a few lawyers, I don’t think I’d be interested in big law. I don’t want to work in NY or DC or any other big city like that (maybe except for Miami). I don’t want to sit in an office whole day looking at papers, but that’s how some of the big law firm lawyers described their jobs (at least those I spoke to, maybe others had different experiences). I would like to actually work with clients and go to court. This is one of the main reasons why I looked at advocacy and litigation… I just think that smaller law firms might provide me with more such opportunities. And as long as I’m doing something I like, I don’t think I mind starting with a lower salary and working my way up.

19

Well you are in luck. U Florida’s 509 shows that 3 percent of students receive more than full tuition in merit money. Your gpa and probable lsat are both above their 75th percentile

20

@FloridaLaw2020: In my opinion, you have a very mature & well reasoned plan for your future.

Majoring in Criminology will not affect whether or not you are admitted to your four targeted Florida law schools. Typically, the criticism of this major is that it does not require much in the way of analytical thought & doesn’t develop one’s critical reasoning & writing skills. Additionally, it is a very easy major that teaches certainty. Nevertheless, if you earn an LSAT score above any particular law schools’ median LSAT score of matriculated students, it will not be a factor. And, some schools may offer a more rigorous criminology major than is typical.