Help - where do we start?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Case Western Reserve may also be a good choice. It is strong in engineering, particularly biomedical, and offers a music conservatory program jointly with the Cleveland Institute of Music. Case is also generous with merit scholarships and I suspect that a student of your daughters calibre would get a full tuition offer. Its close to Oberlin so you could do a twofer on the campus visits.</p>

<p>BTW, you probably know, a conservatory program is very concentrated and it would be impossible to combine this and an engineering degree program unless she decided to extend her undergrad program to at least 5 years. AP's could eliminate some of the math, science and humanities requirements but too many music/engineering/higher math-science courses would remain.</p>

<p>In addition Cleveland isnt that far away from State College, Pa!</p>

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<p>I wonder about Vassar for music; is there merit aid there?</p>

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<p>Re Lawrence: you do not have to be in the conservatory program to take the conservatory classes. Thus you could major in math/sci & still take all the music you want.</p>

<p>My D wanted East Coast only too-- until we discovered that the "east coast equivalents" in the mid west were less overloaded with applicants, and even had merit aid for kids that would not even be easy admits to some of the New England LACs.</p>

<p>At least worth a look for a very strong safety with the probability of substantial aid.</p>

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<p>Both Swarthmore and Haverford have excellent 3/5 science/engineering programs. Bryn Mawr may, too, but I don't know about it if so. Smith has a well-thought-of engineering program.</p>

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<p>MusicMom3, I think your daughter is getting in everywhere and anywhere. If money is an issue, she should apply to many schools.
On the Princeton web site, there is a calculator that tells you what you are expected to pay for Princeton after you fill in the blanks. Check it out. You may get more aid than you think. It will give you an idea for other schools.
<a href="https://sweb.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/FinAid/finaid_form.pl%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://sweb.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/FinAid/finaid_form.pl&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Wow! As others have said, she will have many choices. Although the Ivies don't give merit aid, many of the lacs do. She should apply lots of places and compare offers. Among the Ivies, she might want to look at Princeton where she could do a music performance minor or certificate while majoring in math or science. Among lacs, besides Oberlin with its conservatory, Wesleyan seems to have a lot of music.</p>

<p>I also have a math/science/music kid. He wanted to go some place where he could play, maybe even get free lessons, hear a lot of music, without being a music major. (He's at Columbia but Harvard and Stanford were also up there as possibilities.) You basically have to look at this school by school. At Northwestern, for example, which has a conservatory, if you're not in the music college you are at a disadvantage trying to get music classes. Every college that interests her in general, have her look at or meet with someone from the music department.</p>

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<p>Both Lawrence and Oberlin would be good options, as they are strong in science and math and have conservatories. Visits that include meeting the classical guitar instructors would be very important, to determine if your D would be able to study with the instructor without being a music major and to check out overall compatibility. St. Olaf doesn't list a guitar instructor on their website but they must have one. </p>

<p>If during the search process music takes a bit of a back seat, I'd recommend an urban LAC. The pool of music instructors is usually a little deeper in cities, and there are some excellent instrumental and vocal teachers at schools not well-known for their overall music department.</p>

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<p>"Personally, I'd like to see her go to a small liberal arts school, but not sure we have the $$$."</p>

<p>Musicmom3, Wow, what a starting place! I agree that the first step would be to determine whether or not you would be eligible for need-based financial aid. If you're just starting the college search and application process, you may not be aware that financial aid and merit aid are two very different issues. It's a byzantine system, but many of the top colleges are well endowed and will fund exceptional students whose families demonstrate need, even though they don't officially give merit aid. What constitutes "need" varies widely from school to school (ironically based on what what type of students THEY need as well as what you need), so you should look into the process carefully. If your family does qualify for need based aid, then your daughter would be in the ballpark for just about any college in America. I'm sure Amherst, Williams and Swarthmore would all seriously consider her. </p>

<p>I don't know too much about the music department at Williams, but I understand that it's quite good. Williams would fit your east coast, LAC, not too liberal description. They also have good math/science and writing. No engineering major per se, but they do offer a 3-2 program with Columbia.</p>

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<p>What wonderful advice from you all. It really helps to have insight from folks who have knowledge about what schools are strong in which areas. We never thought about RIT, but she has a friend who wants to audition at Eastman. I didn't know the two were related.</p>

<p>I know that she might have a shot at some of the Ivy league schools too, but am concerned not only with finances, but social issues as well. How do social conservatives fit in at the Ivy's?</p>

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<p>Garland, what is this about University of Rochester giving 10,000 to 1350+ SATS? Does this include Eastman students?</p>

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<p>If I remember correctly, I think it's RIT that gives merit aid based on SAT scores.</p>

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<p>MusicMom3 - Make sure not to confuse RIT and UofR (both good schools). That was a constant confusion when we explained where my son was going to school.</p>

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<p>lorelei:
I doubt very much that Eastman cares much at all about SAT scores. You get in there by audition - and it is VERY tough. You have to be an absolutely TOP level musician, and a double major just wouldn't happen.</p>

<p>Eastman School of Music is part of the University of Rochester. U of R is ON A SEPARATE campus. Eastman is in downtown Rochester and U of R is, oh, about 6 miles away (still a fairly urban area, but not downtown). It is true that students at U of R have the opportunity to study at Eastman (however my understanding is that it is generally with an Eastman student, not one of the Eastman faculty) and I believe there is a U of R shuttle between the two campuses. Perhaps the best thing about the affiliation is that Eastman provides a wealth of wonderful performance events that are free or cheap for students. U of R also has their own music ensembles - which if you were a musician attending U of R you would participate in those, not Eastman's. I only know this stuff because my kids participate in the Eastman Community Music Division.</p>

<p>Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT) is a completely different college, and not close to either U of R or Eastman.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the clarification on the Rochesters. I don't think my daughter would mind a student teacher as long as they can teach. Playing well and teaching well are two different things.</p>

<p>My daughter received a DVD from Swarthmore which she watched last night. Seems like everyone on it wants to change the world. That's OK, but some students need to go into occupations that make enough money to give to the world-changing people.</p>

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<p>Don't forget to apply to Penn State honors! Though familiar to her, she may not really know all that can be made available to her in her areas of interest thru the Honors Program.</p>

<p>A nephew is at Penn State Honors and absolutely loves it. He is more toward the history, politics bent and is currently in England for an all-expenses paid trip (@ 3 weeks) where he'll earn Honors credit too. It should be a wonderful back-up for your daughter, that just might end up becoming first choice after comparisons with others.</p>

<p>I'd also second Oberlin though it is not East coast. Another very bright young woman I'm acquainted with attended for Music and had wonderful opportunities (int'l travel w/ symphony performance) presented to her. Don't know about their options for engineering though. Good luck!</p>

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<p>I've heard wonderful things about Schreyer's. You're right, Irishbird, it may become her first choice after she's had a chance to look around a bit. Finding the time for looking seems to be the challenge. She's already missing a ton of school for music festivals.</p>

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<p>"How do social conservatives fit in at the Ivy's?"
MusicMom3, most northeast colleges are liberal in bent. For the most part the faculties vote heavily Democrat. The kids do to, but at some schools Repulicans at least can voice an opinion. The schools that have the most balanced approach (still liberal, but conservatives are not totally endangered) are Princeton, Dartmouth & Yale in the Ivy League and Amherst, Williams, Hamilton & Colgate in LACs. As far as conservative + music + LAC, Williams is the only one that readily comes to mind.</p>

<p>No merit money, but generous financial aid.</p>

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<p>Get ready to make recordings this summer and audition trips next winter.</p>

<p>There are places where you can mix music performance and science/math/engineering. </p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon is probably the top place for music performance AND high level academics. The audition selection is extremely tough. The guy who wrote "Godspell" wrote that 


while he was a student there

. Heard of Josh Groban? He went there. You 


can

dual major in music and Humanities or Science (not engineering). Small chance of small merit awards. Not a LAC. You need to submit a voice tape just to get a chance at an audition on voice. Supposedly not a great place to major in Writing.</p>

<p>At Case Western, you can definitely dual major in music (tied to Cleveland Institute of Music, same campus) and anything they offer (including engineering). She would have a great chance for full tuition scholarship there; also not a LAC.</p>

<p>U of Rochester: you have a choice of dual enrolling at UofR and Eastman, or just UofR where you could combine anything with a music BA. Eastman would have a very competitive audition; UofR would not have an audition for admission. Good merit awards. The campuses are about 20 min apart via shuttle bus. A research university, but the size of a large LAC.</p>

<p>As was noted, Ivy schools and the highly selective northeast LACs have zero merit aid. Drop down a tier in selectivity or move midwest and that changes (such as Wooster or Susquehanna). The Ivies are noted for not having much music performance except Yale. Harvard just set up a program with New England Conservatory this year; Columbia has something with Julliard. Amherst is known for its music department. MIT has zero merit aid, but has good music facilities, staff, and student musicians on campus, and you can take courses at Harvard. Northwestern (no merit aid) and Rice are not northeast LACs either, but have great academics and music departments.</p>

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<p>UMD - great Engineering dept with super job placement, and marvelous vocal performance program (AND merit aid).</p>

<p>Also JHU - has Peabody which is tops, and double degree option - Merit aid for top 20 applicants.</p>

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<p>Your D has a shot at any school in the country. But a match does not an admit make, and with cost issues in the equation, she would be wise to try spread out her choices among a variety of schools. What we did last year with our then junior was have him visit a number of different schools to get the flavor of different settings. He went to LA and looked at some schools there from USC to UCLA to Loyola Marymount. He then went and looked at tiny Santa Fe. He looked at DePaul, Northwestern and UChicago. He looked at Emerson, BU, BC, Boston Conservatory. He looked at several small LACs around our area. So he had a good idea what a large state school would be like, compared to LACs, conservatories, Catholic colleges, city schools without campuses, suburban schools. So now if we look at any school, we can pretty much have some idea as to what it is like. He can sort of picture it in his mind's eye. But it took much longer for him to figure out what he would like, where he would want to live and what factors are important to him, and what he would exchange to get what. Looking at Penn State is a good first step, and a drive to Bucknell is an easy second. Going into Pittsburgh would show you what a school like Pitt (think NYU, GW), Duquesne (Fordham, Villanova) and CMU (UPenn, Hopkins, Columbia) type atmospheres. When she gets that down, she can start composing her list. There are the absolute dream schools where she has a shot to get in but she should not be setting her cap absolutely for since the chances are so small for anyone (HPY). Also there are no merit awards given at these schools so unless you qualify for financial aid, we are talking $45-50K per year. But if this is worth it to you as a family, give it a try. Are there any other schools that make this dream list such as the top LACs, other ivies, Duke, Stanford,etc? Write them down, but understand that these will definitely full pay schools. Then come the schools where she would have a chance at a merit scholarship such as BC, NYU, WashU, St Louis, Emory, Tulane, Case Western, Rochester. If you get the USN&WR Ultimate Guide, there is a section in the front pages that list colleges that give generous merit aid, and those should be examined carefully, as she would be an excellent candidate for some award. The women's colleges like Smith, Brynn Mawr, Barnard, etc are also excellent possibilities. Many of the schools listed above in other posts are also good suggestions. In her case, a true safety may not be as necessary, though you do have a built in one with PSU, the price is right, and it is an excellent school. I think she is well on her way.</p>