Help with a Music Degree decision

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>Hi all,</p>

<p>I'm new to this site, and joined to ask opinions of people who - judging from other threads I've read over the past hour - are experienced and helpful when it comes to choosing music universities.</p>

<p>Let me first introduce myself. I am from Canada, but I'm hoping there's not much of a difference, and if you can't comment on universities you can at least comment on programs. I have a 95% average and have been playing tenor saxophone for 8 years, private lessons for one. I intend on becoming a secondary music teacher, and applied and did all of my auditions earlier this year. </p>

<p>My playing is up to par but no where near that of most others auditioning, I don't have piano, am currently working through theory and harmony, and have experience in teaching and conducting both in class and in concert through a six month course I took as an assistant teacher. My playing may hold me back, but I can do anything provided I practice and I know I can make an excellent music teacher. I hope I don't sound too self-centered, I'm actually very self-conscious about my playing.</p>

<p>My choices, in order, were as follows:
McGill - Montreal, Quebec, Concurrent Music Education
Toronto - Toronto, Ontario, Concurrent Music Education
Queens - Kingston, Ontario, Concurrent Music Education
Western - London, Ontario, Music (Specialization in education in third year)
Windsor - Windsor, Ontario, Music</p>

<p>I chose the schools based on the 'brand' or reputation, reviews from others, and lots of research. I was dead set on the concurrent education route, as I'm fairly sure that someone would rather hire me with a concurrent music education degree than a music degree followed by teacher's college. Please tell me if I'm wrong in saying that.</p>

<p>I got accepted into McGill, but not Toronto. I got accepted into Queen's, but for the music program as oppose to the concurrent. I didn't audition at Windsor because it was too far, too early, and I had already got my first choice at the time, but got accepted into an academic based Bachelor of the Arts program which didn't require an audition, and Western offered me the same as Windsor.</p>

<p>Then comes the hard part. McGill, being out of province, is much more expensive than Ontario universities when it comes to tuition, and my parents refuse to pay for it. I get offered 28 000$ (total for all four years) to go into Windsor, but the less advanced program, and my parents think I should choose that.</p>

<p>Queen's is the last option, but I hated my experience there. My audition went well, with the lady writing down that I was 'definitely acceptable', but during my interview a different lady literally smashed her head against the desk in an exasperated sigh when I told her that I wouldn't play a song that my class didn't like. I tried to question her, and she ignored me and moved on, later stating that I thought I was perfect at absolutely everything. I'm not sure where she got that from, seeing as I failed my ear-training and theory tests.</p>

<p>Money-wise, I have 10 000$ saved from my parents education fund, I have 8 000$ in my bank account, and can make up to 4 000$ if I'm lucky over the summer. My parents will not pay for anything else. The government loan program estimated that they could give me 7 000$, which I'd have to eventually pay back with interest.</p>

<p>So basically my choice is between three:
McGill - My number one choice, the only concurrent education program, and extremely prestigious school with an amazing program, but 21 000$. I realize this may not be expensive compared to American schooling, but for me it is. They offered me 2 000$.
Queen's - Regular music program, terrible experience, 17 000$ overall but it has the cheapest tuition, so if I moved out my last three/four years would be much cheaper.
Windsor - The academic-based program which doesn't require an audition or very much playing. It's called 'Music (Honours Bachelor of Arts)' for anyone wanting to look it up, and the site says that it's 'An excellent start for later pursuit of a professional music degree', meaning to me that it's not an actual degree, and no one will hire me with it.</p>

<p>The final option is living with my Grandparents in Montreal, and taking an hour-and-a-half bus ride to school every day, but not paying the tremendous residence/food cost, which bring it down to 9 000$ a year with bus passes. I haven't actually asked my Grandparents about it yet, though.</p>

<p>So basically, let me know what kind of degree I need to become a music teacher, how much the reputation of a school matters, and what the best decision is for me to make. I will value most any opinion highly, as I am completely lost!</p>

2

<p>IMP: If violindad doesn’t respond to this, try to send him a private message. He is from Canada and I believe his son is at McGill. You could also try percussiondad for some input. (To send a private message, look through some of the posts on music major forum, find a post from violindad, then click on his name. A menu will pop up and click on send a private message.) Good luck!</p>

3

<p>McGill is the only school I know anything about, and of course its reputation is excellent. Plus, you got into the program you want there. But if money is truly an obstacle (as it is for many of us), then I hope someone comes along on this forum to help you with the other schools. Good luck!</p>

4

<p>Have you called the school to explain your situation and see if there is a process to appeal for additional funds?</p>

5

<p>Thanks for the replies, everyone! I’ll definitely give violindad a message.</p>

<p>LGSMom, I’ve already applied for the financial aid, and received 2000$. Is that what you’re talking about, or have you heard of others receiving more after looking into it?</p>

6

<p>The reputation of the school is not crucial for music ed (unless the school is very weak and none of your mentioned schools is). Instead, to get hired as a music educator, you will need good recommendations from the teachers that supervise your internship and student teaching. Connections often help. </p>

<p>While McGill is the best of the music schools in Canada that offer music ed programs, I’m not sure that its music ed program is much better than Western’s (and some would say that Western’s is better), and, in any case, the reputation is not that important since almost all Canadian universities are quite good. So don’t go to McGill for its reputation if teaching school music is your intended destination.</p>

<p>You are correct that getting a Bachelor of Music in music ed is better than taking a non-music ed B Mus or a music-major BA followed by a BEd or MEd. Many universities will not allow you to take some of the crucial music ed courses unless you are a music ed major, or else, they will limit the number of mus ed courses you can count towards a BMus or BA degree. For example, band methods, choral methods etc. are often only open to mus. ed. students.</p>

<p>I think that you are unlikely to get much more out of McGill if you have already asked for a reconsideration of financial aid. Because the tuition for Canadians is relatively low, McGill will probably expect you to rely on Canadian gov’t students loans and your own savings. Of course, it never hurts to ask!</p>

<p>Is there a possibility that you could transfer into a music ed program at Windsor or Western after a year in a general music program? Most or all of your courses would probably transfer if you select them wisely: the theory, music history, and aural musicianship classes are probably common requirements and if you are allowed to play in an ensemble for credit in the general music programs, then that would also be transferable. You will need some electives or a non-music teachable minor in a music ed program, so you could also take care of some of those courses while in the general music program. </p>

<p>I would call Windsor and Western to see what the transfer options are; be certain to talk to someone in music ed (perhaps the mus ed program director or mus ed admissions head if they have either such beast). </p>

<p>When considering the possibility of transfer, remember that it is almost always more efficient to transfer between programs within a school than to transfer between schools. By “more efficient”, I mean that there is usually less loss of credit within a school. When transferring between schools, there is often or perhaps usually some credit loss, especially in more specialized programs like music and music ed (English majors are less likely to lose as much credit). </p>

<p>Many schools still have excellent placement records for their music ed grads (I still hear of many schools with 90%+ of their graduates gainfully employed in music education). Hence your employment prospects as a music ed grad are superior to those of a performance or music theory major and you can afford to take on a moderate amount of debt in the form of student loans.</p>

<p>If you still choose to go to McGill, recognize that you don’t have to live in residence (where, as you note, the food and room costs are steep). You could save a bundle by living on your own. I think that a 1.5 hour commute two times a day is too much for a music student–you will be too busy to have 3 hours of your day taken up with the commute. Most of the music students that I know at McGill live within 15 minutes of campus and few live beyond 40 minutes.</p>

<p>If you are unhappy with the options you have at present, then consider the gap year: work and live at home to save more funds for your education; develop some more skills; and audition next year at Windsor and one or two other schools that are affordable. I think that very few 22-year-olds are fully ready to take over a school music program, so there is an advantage to being 23 or 24 when you graduate. </p>

<p>McGill is a very stimulating place for music, but I believe that the other schools you mention could also potentially be very stimulating places for a music ed major. Ultimately music educators must be leaders and must create a stimulating environment for their own students–they should start by showing leadership while they are in university and by contributing to their own universities. If they do, then they will be hired before the grads from the “reputable” school who did little in their reputable school. </p>

<p>Best of luck with your decision! I don’t know if this will help, but I believe that a music educator’s success if less about choosing the right program and more about being the right person, so I wouldn’t sweat too much about the purported quality of various programs. [I don’t believe that same thing regarding music performance.] Just take full advantage of all the opportunities there are in the program you choose and create opportunities where they are lacking.</p>

7

<p>Violindad hit everything perfectly, the other question I would ask though is where do you want teach, in Ontario or Quebec as to my understanding that could make a difference. My D actually went State side to small LAC with an outstanding reputation for Music Ed. She was doing a double major in Performance and Music Ed and what is really good about it was that should could become certified for both New York State and Ontario. What Violindad said in his last paragraph is so true that a " music educator’s success if less about choosing the right program and more about being the right person". My D completed everything except 2 Ed classes and her placement but decided that she was NOT the right person for teaching. While doing her practicum she would literally be physically ill the night before, it wasn’t in her and I respect that. She found another love though and has now made her double major into Performance and Music Business. She finished her junior year today and is so looking forward to her senior year. Have you looked at U of O, I m not sure if they have concurrent but I believe they do. My D followed her heart and luckily we were able to help her, She was offered enough scholarships in Canada that tuition would have been about $1500 a year (at 3 Universities) and a guaranteed year in an European exchange program at no extra cost. She chose to go where she is because when she visited something struck home as being the right place for her, As her parents we had to accept that, bite the bullet and decide if we could afford it. She got a phenomenal Scholarship in the States that brought the cost down to the same as had she stayed in Canada and needed room and board. In the performance side it was almost impossible in Canada to do concurrent double majors.
Now we are going to spend the summer with her trying to set up her M.Mus applications so her we go again.
As Violindad said I would not sweat it alot about where you go as much as are you happy there. McGill has a fantastic reputation in the performance side but not as much in ED, Western and Windsor both are top schools and I unfortunately think you had just plain bad luck at Queens. Two of D"s best friends are there and love it beyond words. If you really cant decide and money is the deciding factor then maybe a year off would be a great idea.
Good luck and keep us posted as to what you decide.</p>

8

<p>Thank you all, especially violin dad, for the thorough responses, they were very helpful. I guess I’ve always been so set on McGill that I just assumed it would be best for me, but numerous people have informed me that the reputation isn’t that important. There will be a different in between Music Ed. and Music, but only very slight, and Windsor might be as good as McGill due to the connections I could possibly make.</p>

<p>I have very good news - I’ve been offered an audition at Windsor so I might make in into B. Mus. after all! Has anyone heard about after-acceptance auditions? Will they seriously consider me after they’ve accepted most people or not? And I’m also not sure how this affects the acceptance date for both Windsor and McGill of June 1st since the audition will be after that, but I intend to find out.</p>

<p>On a gap year, I don’t think that’s for me at all, both because you can’t defer acceptances and also because it’s already been so much work and effort that I’d rather not go through again. I’m very jealous of my friends who simply apply online all at once and wait, because my marks would get me into most regular programs, but I’m not regretting it yet because music is the path I chose and I know it will all be worth it eventually. </p>

<p>My father received a degree in Quebec and teaches in Ontario, so I know all about the switching and whatnot, and don’t think it will make that much of a difference. As for transferring, I’ll take a look into it but it sounds difficult, I’ll ask my contacts at the universities about it.</p>

<p>Finally, what about the Bachelor of the Arts in Music by itself? Is that really such a terrible degree as I’m talking it up to be?</p>

9

<p>I’m sure that Windsor will seriously consider you. They wouldn’t waster faculty members’ time in auditioning you if they weren’t serious about a possible acceptance.</p>

<p>A Bachelor of Arts with a music major usually has some serious drawbacks for someone like you that is interested in teaching music: normally you can’t take any private lessons at all (unless you arrange and pay for them on your own and then you don’t get any credit); you normally can only participate in ensembles on an extra-curricular basis (i.e. no credit); and the music courses available to you or required of you focus on the academic side of music rather than on the practical side. </p>

<p>Of course, universities vary, so if you decide to go the BA route, check carefully into the required and allowable music courses that you can take. For example, while my local university allows nonBMus to take conducting for credit (with special permission), they don’t allow woodwind techniques, brass techniques, percussion techniques, secondary music ed methods etc. for nonBMus students who are music majors in Arts.</p>