Help with application list -- high-stats student

It’s a little puzzling but, if he didn’t like Brown, he probably wouldn’t like Wesleyan either. Brown’s Thayer Street and Middletown’s Main Street with their bars and coffee houses would seem ideal for off-campus gigs.

Undecided major & no career goal at the moment suggests that a gap year should receive some consideration.

Also, Ithaca College may be too lax of an environment for a 4.0uwGPA with a 1530 SAT.

I have to respectfully disagree with @publisher. First of all, its a bit unfair to require all kids to know their major and career goal before entering college. For many kids, part of college is discovering those things. Furthermore, even high stat kids need safety schools and those safety schools are going to have lower stats then the reaches or matches – thats one of the things that makes them safeties.

@gallentjill: We don’t disagree. My suggestion is just to consider a gap year. Sometimes a year of travel or working helps to develop one’s goals. But I think that we agree that it is not necessary. But it might be better for this individual whose parents should know best.

As for Ithaca College: I worry that this student would be underselling himself. If his only acceptance is to Ithaca College, then better to take a gap year & reapply.

I am a big fan of gap years, but I’m not at all convinced that they help you decide on a major. I considered history and literature before I ended up with Visual and Environmental Studies. They couldn’t have been more different. If I’d had a better science background in high school I might have ended up with some STEM major - I loved my engineering courses in architecture school.

One of my son’s best friends from high school, who is as smart and intellectually oriented as my son (who is at Williams), is now at Ithaca College on a full scholarship plus room and board. Another kid from their high school who is supersmart and also was in all AP’s, etc., is there, too. The scholarship deal was so amazing, and the program for top kids so exciting, that it pulled them both from other ‘more selective’ colleges to which they were also admitted.

And then there are indeed some students also from their high school who got in who are not academic superstars. But that is what happens at a “safety”- there will be some students who are top of the charts, but unlike at the tippy-top colleges, there also will be some students who are less stellar in their academic profile. Those students will bring other gifts— for example, Ithaca attracts a lot of musically talented kids.

I do not know if it is possible to find a “safety” that would not have at least some students with lower stats than the OP’s son. That is what makes it a safety for him!

The OP named a range of colleges; while it is possible the OP’s son will be attending Ithaca, there is a good bet that Brandeis, Rochester or Skidmore will come through… and some other colleges, too!

@thegreyking I agree completely and if you look at the end of the four years, its not always the highest stat kids who are the most successful in many ways.

Interesting that he is heavy on the “Little Ivies” but avoiding Ivies. He could apply to Harvard, what the heck, but it seems he doesn’t want to. He would be able to study percussion with NEC or Berklee faculty there, no doubt. Ditto maybe with Tufts. Great music depts, at both schools.

If Lawrence and Ithaca are good with opportunities for non-conservatory students, then they are excellent choices!!!

There are tradeoffs. While your son may get a substantial scholarship offer from Ithaca College, is it worth the sacrifice of job placement & recruiting ?

Also, according to your initial post, your son wants “a rigorous liberal arts education”. If so, consider deleting Ithaca & spending that app fee on Pomona College or Claremont McKenna College.

Why work so hard for a 1530 SAT & 4.0 uwGPA to go to Ithaca College ? Now is not the time to quit striving for the best.

@publisher how much do you know about the recruiting and job prospects from Ithaca? Have you actually compared them to the prospects at Vassar, Brandeis and Pomona or are you just assuming based on average SAT score? I hate to derail this thread, but I feel that you are giving dangerously poor advice. Telling students that they are better off not going to college at all rather then attending an excellent school like Ithaca is just plain wrong.

@Publisher everyone needs a safety and the safety isn’t going to provide everything you are looking for. The trick is to find a safety that works for you. My older son found safeties in smaller engineering colleges - they still had terrific academics and high stat kids. They were in less desirable towns and had less favorable M/F ratios. Younger son was able to find a college that was terrific for his major (International Relations) and then a second safety at his reach when he got in EA. That college’s M/F ratio was tipped to women, so as a boy he had an advantage there. Many undecided students may decide that their best safety option is the honors program at the local state university.

@gallentjill: Suggesting that one consider taking a gap year is NOT the same as suggesting that one not go to college at all. But, yes, I do believe that Ithaca would be a waste for one who has worked so hard to earn a 4.0 uwGPA & a 1530/1600 SAT.

If he needs a safety, then consider a stats based admission to a large state university honors college. Will be surrounded by more motivated students & exposed to more opportunities.

As for gap years & how they are valued by admissions offices, I suggest that you contact the admissions director at Princeton University (or just research her writings on the matter of gap year).

@mathmom: With a 4.0 uwGPA & a 1530 SAT score, our definition of safety differs for this student other than with respect to honors colleges.

More to the point is what would be an appropriate safety for this student. Just because he is undecided as to major & career choice does not mean to aim low. This type of mindset should strive for the top schools so as to remain among motivated students & enjoy the benefits of being at a target school for recruiting & job placement.

If the OP is looking to build out the “middle” of the list, perhaps consider Denison which is outside Columbus, Ohio. Strong classical and jazz music program and, being 25 minutes from Columbus, music faculty often maintain a performance profile. Eisner Performing Arts Center will open next year, which consolidates music, dance and theater departments, practice, and performing space into a single, gorgeous new building. Denison offers good merit, which pulls in some very impressive students. Other schools to consider might include Dickinson and Franklin & Marshall, we toured music at Dickinson but never made it to F&M (we needed merit to make finances work, and F&M does not do merit). I’ve also heard good things about Gettysburg music program. As my kid was orchestral and jazz percussionist – though certainly not with your son’s stats – feel free to PM me.

My daughter is an Ithaca graduate and her first job out of college was the result of a job posting sent out to recent graduates from one of her professors.

That first job was an exceptionally good entry-level job and served her well.

Having gone through this process just a short while ago with a D with exceptional credentials (similar, perhaps a bit stronger than your S’s), we learned that many NESCACs are a crap shoot for even the most qualified student. It has to do with how small the schools are, compared with how many applicants there are. Many of the schools you identified are indeed “reaches” for all students. Adding Ivies to the list only adds to the reaches; fine, but unless there is an additional hook, they are just long shots. My advice would be to find some good matches that your S would truly be happy with. I think Rochester is in that match category. Vassar might be a “match” or lower reach, but it sounds like your S is not sold. Skidmore is a good match. Colby and Bates could be good matches. Amherst and Middlebury would be reaches – not that your S is not qualified, it’s just that the acceptance rate is so low. Tufts might be in that same reach category, but I am not sure, it might be a match. My D was an extremely strong candidate, but ended up with a huge number of waitlists. And then she decided that she didn’t really like her safeties after all, and she wasn’t thrilled with her matches either. It all worked out in the end, but my advice is (i) be aware that many of these schools are more of a reach than you may realize and it’s possible to get unlucky, so (ii) find “matches” and “safeties” that he could be really excited about, (iii) maximize his odds by going ED with his first choice school if he can identify one (probably not an Ivy, but maybe Dartmouth)(my DD did not apply ED anywhere, just SCEA at Yale and she was deferred then finally denied), and (iv) polish, polish, polish those essays and get the applications in ahead of schedule. Good luck! And BTW, some of the “matches/safeties” offer honors programs and special merit programs that could be very enticing and exciting!

I was going to suggest William & Mary in Virginia.

I think Ithaca is a good choice for safety, especially with the conservatory on campus.It’s a great area with Cornell nearby. He could also apply to Cornell…

Rochester had Eastman. Have you checked whether opportunities for non-music major/non-BM students are good for Rochester students and if Eastman benefits them at all?

@compmom Yes, non-majors can take lessons at Eastman and audition for ensembles on a space-available basis. But there are also excellent ensembles at the non-Eastman part of UR.

@SoccerMomGenie I fully understand. It’s tough when you don’t ED because there are not many spots left after the ED round.

@brantly, you asked if one school welcomed Jewish students, so I’m assuming your son is Jewish. In that case, I would suggest looking at Wesleyan – it shares many of the attributes that the other schools on your list have, and has a very vibrant Hillel society (it’s not called that there, but same point). My daughter’s student tour guide was very involved in the student Jewish community, and it really attracted my daughter (who is also Jewish, though I’m not). Also, the music scene at Wesleyan is really a big deal – much of the social scene revolves around music (listening to student bands, etc).