<p>I am an immigrant and the college search is confusing and foreign to me. When I was my D's age, the (old country) gov would say, you go to X and study Y. And we say, sure, we'll study Y at X :-) Please help me to help my daughter to come up with some possible choices. Here's her vitals:</p>
<ul>
<li>Junior at a good public high school. I don't know if the school is considered large or small (360 kids in her class), but they do send one or two each to HYPSM every year, many to other selective schools, large number to our state nationally known public flag ship.</li>
<li>By sr. year she would have 10 APs; the rest are honors, except for two district required courses in vocation. She's currently ranked 3/360. Probably she will graduate the same spot or one up. </li>
<li>Her last month PSAT is 74/70/70 (CR/M/W). Low for her ranking peers at this HS. Should be doing serious study for SAT or ACT.</li>
<li>EC: officer in 2 science clubs since 10th grade; NHS, National Spanish HS, youth orchestra since 4rd grade. I know, it's thin but she does what she feels worthwhile for her.</li>
<li>Volunteer: ~250 hrs; mainly at a hospital. Documented, noted on HS transcript.</li>
<li>Except for honors rolls, she doesn't have any award to speak of. Maybe the usual, commended scholar, AP scholar, NHS, summer scholarship recipient...</li>
<li>Summers: 9th grade: online school, Spanish; 10th grade: a state scholarship program in science; 11th: probably governor school (Spanish) or a college summer session (Multi. Calc. and a science course)</li>
<li>Financial aid/merits: we don't expect anything. It's tough but doable for us. Maybe she needs a little loan.</li>
<li>What she want to do? Not sure, she likes something quantitative, math based. For sure, she won't major in the humanities and many of the social sciences; she won't major in engineering or technology. Methink: economics, applied math, statistics etc. But that will be up to her.</li>
<li>School preference: No LACs. Mid-size to (smaller) large uni. She prefers schools outside the south, except for Duke and Rice. Nothing wrong with southerners; she just lives here whole her life. She says she like cold weather (she never knows!)</li>
<li>Naviance match list for her including a wide range, from our state schools to Harvard. It doesn't look like very helpful, hence the confusion.</li>
<li>Oh, we went to mid-west over the summer; she likes UChicago and WashU, but nothing serious about them either.</li>
</ul>
<p>So, here we are. She doesn't know what she wants. I don't know what's realistic. Schools in the east coast, west coast would be fine for her. Any pointer would be appreciated.</p>
<p>She has a terrific rank, though her SAT is a bit low. She should take at least two SAT subject tests and perhaps another one if she wants to apply to reach schools (check out their websites). Rice, Duke, Chicago and Wash U are all terrific schools. How about Brown or Stanford? If she does not mind very large state Us, Michigan is great and has rolling admissions. UIUC and UW-Madison also have good math programs, as do Berkeley and UCLA.
During spring break, take her to visit a few schools to get a better idea of what appeals to her most.</p>
<p>I don’t think that her PSATs are low at all - what are her percentiles? They must be over 95% and I’m assuming that she didn’t do much/any PSAT prep. With a reasonable amount of SAT prep, she should be in the mid to high 700s on her SATs - good enough to be competitive anywhere.</p>
<p>She should look at Michigan or Wisconsin, to ensure that she doesn’t think that they are too big. The urban/suburban/rural atmosphere may also come into play, so visit schools in a variety of settings.</p>
<p>The OP stated this about FA: “* Financial aid/merits: we don’t expect anything. It’s tough but doable for us. Maybe she needs a little loan.”</p>
<p>OP, are you aware that OOS publics and all privates can go up to about $50K?</p>
<p>With a major in Math you can go to just about any college. I would definitely check out your state college and then, based on potential cold weather schools, UMich, Ohio State, Indiana U.</p>
<p>“Low” is comparative. For her rank, a 700 in Math PSAT is a bit low, especially if she wants to be a math major. Put it down to unfamiliarity with the format. With a bit of practice, she can bring her scores up</p>
<p>Be sure to check out this thread on self-studying for the SAT. The thread is huge, but there is a summary of the method on a pdf link in post #1: </p>
<p>Erin’s Dad, assuming the worst in terms of finaid/merits (i.e. none), we would be able to pay about 95% full load of any private/OOS school in the US. We can cover that 5% by loans.</p>
<p>I am pondering about OOS schools too. But, Michigan tuition is 37K, wouldn’t it be better to go to a private in this case – Rice is only 30K, for example? On the other hand, UVA is only 30K or Iowa 22K – these are much better deal. No?</p>
<p>Yes, Michigan is very expensive for out-f-state students. What state are you in? Does your D prefer to be near a large city or surrounded by nature? Possibilities are WUSTL, UChicago, Northwestern, Columbia. We need more information.</p>
<p>I would suggest you look for schools at have very good to excellent programs in all or most of her interest area (math, statistics, economics etc). Also ask her how important continuing her extracurriculars while in college (hospital volunteering, music etc) is to her because that might also play a part in her final decision. Then start visiting schools. I would suggest visiting 1 or 2 LACs, perhaps 1 or 2 technology type schools, and some more broad curriculum universities. I would also suggest varying size of school, community the school is in, distance from home. She should definitely apply to a couple Ivies but they are reaches for everyone so also look at some SLIGHTLY lower ranked schools.</p>
<p>It is not so much “should she apply to x instead of y” but more “should she consider x as well as y” at this point. </p>
<p>I suggested schools that have very strong math programs, especially in applied math (not that others cannot have strong math programs, too, but these are some that I know of–my S is a pure math grad). Mich is in there not only because it has a great math program but also rolling admissions. Some students get into the Honors program as well, with good merit money. With an early admission, a student can then trim her list and drop schools that are on it merely as safeties.
I took into account that your D is interested in mid-size to large Unis, but not LACs. Most private schools are mid-sized or LACs (some of which have terrific math/statistics/economics programs).
UVA is cheaper than Mich for OOS but may be harder to get in. Mich has been aggressively courting OOS students precisely because they bring in more tuition money. I believe that UVA still has a cap on OOS enrollments so it remains much harder for OOS students to be admitted than for in-state students (maybe things have changed lately?).</p>
<p>Re music: If your daughter is interested in continuing to play with an orchestra but does not intend to study music seriously at college, she might want to apply to universities that do NOT have serious, professional music programs. At such places, she would probably be welcomed with open arms into any ensemble she wants to join. At a school with many music majors, there might not be enough spots open for non-music majors, and the auditions could be very competitive.</p>
<p>In my opinion, she is overqualified for UDel. Maryland is a different issue. There are good honors programs and quite a lot of very highly qualified in-staters there on merit scholarships, so she would have a peer group. Maryland could be a nice choice if she’s interested in being near Washington, DC. It can be reasonably argued that it’s the second-best university in the DC area (after Georgetown). </p>
<p>May I suggest that she take a look at Cornell? It has a very flexible math major with economics and applied math concentrations, and the admissions committee places more weight on grades than test scores. Her test scores are high enough for her to be a reasonable candidate anyway. Cornell is also absolutely freezing and poorly served by mass transit, but you can’t have everything.</p>
<p>It’s easy to pick the top schools. Some of the midsize universities we looked at for my son were:
Brandeis
Tufts
American
GW
Vassar (LAC but larger and more urban than most)
Carnegie Mellon
U of Pittsburgh (on the large side, but might as well look at it if you look at CMU)</p>
<p>Rice and Tufts sound tailor-made for your D. The SAT Math score is the easiest of the three subsections to raise with just a little study and practice. If she does that, then Dartmouth and Brown as well.</p>
<p>jvt - Your D seems to have all the basics covered. Congratulations to her … that’s a very good thing! Above posters have provided good advice … The Xiggi Method for SAT prep, Subject Tests, identifying a handful of appropriate flagships on the off chance your D wants a large and diversified university experience. All good advice.</p>
<p>What I don’t see is information on the style and location of school she wants. It’s a good sign that she’s visited UChicago and WashU. Carnegie Mellon and Vassar are wonderful schools, but wildly different. A trip to Boston between now and March might help her clarify whether cold weather really suits her!</p>
<p>I agree with mathmom (and others, implicitly). She could put the names of the 12-15 top private universities in a hat, pick one at random, and it would suit her needs just fine. Between now and this time next year, she can be a competitive applicant at any of them, although she may not have a 50% or better chance of admission at any of them, either. </p>
<p>Eventually, she should decide which of that top group she wants to apply to. But more important is deciding where to apply that will be an acceptable safety or safe match – a college where she is overwhelmingly likely to be accepted, and would feel enthusiastic about attending. THAT takes work and thought.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I would urge her to reconsider the “no LACs” idea. Lots of LACs have excellent math and quantitative social science programs, and as long as she doesn’t need to be in graduate courses from Day 1 they would probably meet her needs. As a first-generation math-oriented student from the South, she will stand out much more as an applicant at LACs than she will at universities with equivalent student bodies and reputations. (For the very reason, probably, that she says “No LACs”, LACs may be anxious to get more students like her.) This doesn’t solve her safety problem in the least, but she should look into Harvey Mudd (especially), Swarthmore, Reed, Amherst, Williams, Wesleyan. Reed could be very attractive as a match-type college.</p></li>
<li><p>My sense is that if she got her SATs up somewhat from her PSATs, Carnegie-Mellon would be a very good bet.</p></li>
<li><p>Prestigious Canadian universities, including McGill, Toronto, and maybe Waterloo (great reputation in computer science and engineering, not so sure about math), offer great value, both in terms of academic quality/cost, and in terms of likelihood of admission/quality. I think any of them would qualify as a safety for her. They are big – comparable to U.S. state flagships like Michigan or Wisconsin.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Waterloo is one of the top math universities!</p>
<p>I did not push LACs because I understood the OP to mean that the student preferred a larger and possibly urban environment. But there are some LACs that are extremely strong in the areas in which she is interested and have very good grad school placement records.</p>
<p>Check out UW-Madison. Wisconsin’s math grad school is ranked 15th (for what it’s worth- tied for 14th) and this does filter down to the undergrad level. The OOS costs may be less than many other choices, even though little merit aid can be expected (but alumni clubs all over the country exist that give student scholarships). The Honors program has an excellent math sequence and by senior year it is possible to take grad school level math courses as my son is doing. They have an orchestra course for nonmajors so she could continue her instrument. There are many students from all over the country, OOS students come from both coasts, not just the midwest. There are also many diverse courses available, including many foreign languages, that small schools won’t offer. Your D would find her peer group in not only the Honors courses, but in the U as a whole. It is a liberal city and campus. The Residence Halls food service is excellent, all a la carte and reasonably cheap- she would likely find some of her ethnic foods there as well as close to campus.</p>
<p>She should consider both Michigan and Wisconsin as she may like one campus better than the other and both are excellent large public U’s. These two schools are good match/safety schools since there are no guarantees for getting into more elite private schools, especially for the large group of smart Asian Americans. You may also want to check the math grad school rankings as some schools ranked higher overall may have weaker math departments (ie much lower on a list) than these two schools- something that may matter when she takes upper division courses and is thinking of grad school. Small LAC’s will not have the range of math courses available at larger public/private schools- take that into consideration. BTW- my H is from India, you can PM (private message) me with any questions.</p>
<p>After all the above I want to remind you that she needs to consider the whole university/college when choosing schools to apply to. She may discover a totally new field in college and change her major. Do not worry about the prestige factor- guide her with what seems to fit her academic, social, etc needs most. Remember to guide, not lead her- she needs your suggestions but also needs to take charge/ownership of the process. Presenting all sorts of information/colleges to her so she can research them is great.</p>