You also might consider potential transportation costs and the P.I.T.A. factor of getting to/from the airport for some of these schools.
@Publisher @ZZdecision2016 @ColdinMinny ,
I hear you all completely. (I think I derailed my own thread by talking in too much detail regarding my finances… since it’s complicated I’ll just leave it to say that with some discomfort we can get all our kids through even with full pay this time). But being fairly fiscally conservative, your arguments do resonate with me and they really help me frame things more clearly
Re: Iowa, talking to my S and spouse, he is still more interested in a LAC setting.
@liska21 @mamaedefamilia
Thank you for the input on Great Con; the reading and writing demands were described to S before and he was all ready for the challenge 
(ah, youth!) We are planning on the visiting St Olaf once more so perhaps we can at least gain some more clarity on that front
Re: Lawrence, we went to LUX and mom and dad really liked it, S was excited but strangely placed it 5th. We met with Profs. Khor, Spurgin, Bond, and I believe Barnes and it was an impressive experience. Lawrence really is a great place. It was such a good visit, I can’t believe we could do better with another one! The only concern we had was perhaps it was small to the point where it made certain types of things (infrastructure, funding, etc) more difficult, but that is minor.
Re: Denison, we may have to set this one up again based on the responses here.
Re: Kenyon, despite the lack of merit love, they do what they do really well. We visited campus and went to an local event, and came away noting the charm/appeal of the college. Again, surprisingly, S did not place it as a runaway leader. (so here we are)
@Happy4u Lol, the PITA factor was duly noted! Taking connecting flights and driving into account, St Olaf and Denison are indeed easier than Whitman, Lawrence, and perhaps Kenyon.
And to those that mentioned it, yes we are so happy for and proud of our S. It’s been quite a journey (so far) for him.
For what it is worth, we told our S that what he didn’t spend out of his 529 was his to save or keep or spend on a down payment on a place to live if he saved money with his college choice. He happened to still love the option that netted out the most reasonable, but it does make the money issue less abstract, possibly.
Good luck to you and your S. No bad options here at all.
Kenyon has eliminated the submission writing samples for consideration for enrollment in introductory creative writing classes. However, 300 level classes will still require applications.
https://kenyoncollegian.com/uncategorized/2018/03/intro-writing-classes-no-longer-require-samples/
If you think about it, the cost of Kenyon basically equals the cost of Denison plus the cost of a two-year MFA at the University of Iowa (or elsewhere).
I’m not saying he should get a MFA in writing. Just that it really doesn’t seem the advantages of Kenyon in writing, however significant, are going to be more than the advantages of having $100,000 and what it could do to further whatever career he chooses.
The OP might find interesting this info about a substantial grant awarded to Denison for a “writing in place” program in the narrative non-fiction concentration – https://denison.edu/news-events/featured/103657
These are great choices and he’ll get a great education whichever he chooses. I am a huge fan of Whitman, my son went there and enjoyed it immensely. Great place!
[sorry, have been reading but got too bogged down to post until now]
@ColdinMinny That’s a great idea; I’ll come up with something where he has some skin in the game
@Wilson98 @Midwestmomofboys Denison does make a great case. The variety of different student subgroups were mentioned earlier… do they mingle well? or are there enough groups that people find their niche and stick with them?
@bopambo I was hoping you might check in I was curious if you might be able to comment a bit about your S’s experience regarding career placement and/or grad placement at Whitman. Grad schools seem receptive in most places… is that right? Are job leads more restricted to PNW? S loves Seattle/Portland so no problem there. He found the students to be quite considerate and kind during his visit; that, along with some relatives in WA
@apple23 It sounds like your D would do it all again at Kenyon based on your previous posts. My S did like what he described as the friendliness of the students. And it looked like there is some effort to establish relationships between the school and southern California… Is that what you’ve found?
Pragmatic analysis does seem to say to replace Kenyon with Lawrence, esp if grad school is in the plans. I wanted to say I’ve really enjoyed and appreciate the input from everyone.
@chippedtoof – in terms of groups and mingling, my kid’s experience has been that he and his friends cut across groups/include different groups – he is an athlete, and his 2-3 closest friends are teammates but his group of “buds” that he’ll do things with on the weekend includes international students, acapella kids (he loathes it, but goes to support his friends), kids from other teams and I’m sure some other “groups” I’m not aware of. He and his closest friends are not in greek life nor are their girlfriends/female friends. Culturally, Denison is big on dialogue and about “living with” or “bumping into difference” – elsewhere in CC I noted that Reince Priebus and the plaintiff in marriage equality case spoke on campus on back-to-back days, and there were not protests, counter protests etc. My kid is very liberal Democrat and some of his very good friends are conservative Republican – they disagree but get along.
These are all excellent schools. It is very hard to pick between 4 schools. If I were you and had two more kids in the pipeline I’d give your son the choice of the two least expensive options on the list. St Olaf and Denison have very different feels (we visited all on your list and for the record my D applied to and was accepted at St Olaf, Kenyon and Whitman, Denison was not her cup of tea). It is way easier to choose between 2 schools…yet he still has a choice and for the parents it will be one of the more affordable options.
Hi chippedtoof, It’s great that your son already has a favorable impression of Whitman, half the battle is convincing people that Walla Walla really is a nice place and they should take a look. My son has taken a bit of a circuitous route since graduating from Whitman, after taking a year off to hike the Pacific Crest Trail and work some odd jobs, he applied and was accepted to a Peace Corps Masters International graduate program that combines a graduate degree with Peace Corps Service. He’s into his second year of teaching physics in Portuguese in Mozambique as well as conducting a research project on groundwater flow and hand auger well digging on small farms to aid local farmers in dry-season food production. Whew, that’s a mouthful. The hydrology study is his thesis subject. Turns out that Whitman is a high producer of Peace Corps Volunteers, at least 2 more of his friends from the class of 2014 have joined the PC.
When he was applying to grad schools he was pleased by the very positive impressions the prospective academic advisors had of Whitman, and not only on the west coast, it seems to be well thought of in academic circles throughout the country. Whitman is extremely well regarded in Washington State but lots of Californians and Oregonians attend as well. Pretty much all of the 50 states are represented in the student body, but not in great numbers. There is a very active alumni organization and they host networking events throughout the west coast.
Among my son’s closest friends there is a young man who interned at NASA and is now a full-time employee doing cutting-edge research, a couple guys who went to grad school in computer science and now work in Silicon Valley, a guy working in finance in San Francisco, a young woman who is television news reporter in Austin, a young woman who is leading rafting trips in the Grand Canyon, and a guy who is attending grad school at Columbia. Whitties are all over the place.
When my husband and I visited I was blown away by the talented, energetic, intelligent, nice student body. I also really like Walla Walla!
@chippedtoof, I wish I knew more about the Whitman’s English and Creative Writing Departments. My son was in the Geology Department and through the natural course of things he hung out with a lot of science majors. He did want to take Creative Writing as an elective but they were very popular classes and seats were reserved first for Engish majors, any leftover seats were thrown open and it was hard to get into one, he never succeeded. That is probably the only regret about classes he had, small schools have some limitations, however, writing is required in all classes so students get a lot of practice communicating effectively.
If you have more questions about internships or job placement info and data, I wouldn’t hesitate to call the Student Engagement Center, they want to help. Good luck, I know how agonizing these decisions can be!
Over breakfast this morning my husband and I were discussing all our son’s college visits and the reactions we had to the campuses and the students. We split up the visits, he took the midwest and I took the east coast. We were laughing about some of the worst and best experiences while touring college campuses and without knowing anything about your son’s choices he said, “One of the places with the most joyous students we encountered was Lawrence, those kids were really enjoying themselves!” I remember that our son really liked it but was swayed by Whitman’s outdoor program. The current president of Whitman came from Lawrence (with a stopover at Macalester). Although I’m a diehard Whitman fan I remember that Lawrence has a whole lot going for it!
My kid also spent time at Lawrence – said it was the best food of the 20 or so LACs he visited, and the view in the dining hall over the river was gorgeous! We were impressed with the warmth and openness of Con faculty in talking with him at length about his options as a non-Con kid. He ultimately passed on Lawrence because his sport was not competitive there, and he wanted to challenge himself more in that regard. But a wonderful community – Lawrence did a great job of making him feel welcome, as a musician and athlete.
If it were me, I’d focus on Lawrence, Denison, and St Olaf as I don’t think the higher cost at Mac, Kenyon and even Whitman (unless you wanted to keep a west coast option on the table) is worth it, given the similar, though not identical, academics and experiences available at the three less costly options.
There was a previous post here about using the 529 funds “to do whatever you want with them”. I don’t believe that is accurate. It is my understanding at least in NYS that these funds can only be used for college/grad school education. They can however be transferred from one family member to another. My older d’s 539 funds were depleted between undergrad and grad school. As my younger d has not attended grad school although that is still an option down the road, those funds are still there. If she never goes to grad school, they will be transferred to the first of our future grandchildren.
@bopambo Thank you, really appreciate the input. How Whitman handles creative writing is interesting as well. The parental angle also in play is that S can avoid flying yet get to family/friends in Seattle w/o getting on a plane (say during the busy breaks)
@Midwestmomofboys Now that’s good to hear re: civil discourse! It’s funny how all this ties together but I believe St Olaf had a couple of speakers last year address this for a symposium, and they addressed the importance of that very element. I’m happy to hear that these schools, exemplified by Denison students at those occasions you mentioned, are stepping up regarding this responsibility. When I do see things done well, I do get very excited for the conversations my S will be having with his classmates and friends.
@Veryapparent I’m hoping the upcoming trip to MN will allow a trimming. I did notice your D was doing well apply to the same schools (and some more of course) – it sounds like she has a great set of choices. Did she pick one yet? If you don’t mind sharing, could you touch on the non-fit elements with Denison for her?
@bookmama22 yes, you are right. I think a way to think about it is, if the funds are transferred to the future grandchildren, then our children are free from having to save up that amount… those “unsaved” funds of our children can be used (or saved) elsewhere in any fashion. I like 529s
Thank you everyone for your input! I will definitely report back with any progress (I guess we only have 3 weeks)!
chippedtoof, it’s nice to have family close by and many kids drive from Seattle and Portland, so hitching a ride is easy after you get to know people. We also live in Northern California and after the first semester our son took his car to campus, he regularly drove buddies from the Bay Area back and forth on breaks, the students are very helpful that way.
@chippedtoof It was a few things…like Greek life even though it seems mild, campus seemed really dead when we were there and she didn’t really connect with tour guide and class visit was a bit of a bummer…kids didn’t seem super engaged. The music department was great though. I think what bothered her most was that tour guide mentioned school administration didn’t like that kids had some particular social justice signs up in their dorm windows because they offended some parents. This was just after the 2016 election so a pretty charged political environment everywhere. But that killed it for my quiet social justice warrior.
@Veryapparent I’m sorry your daughter did not have a good experience during her visit, though it is a reminder how personal fit is at all of these smaller schools. One comment about the poster in the window anecdote – in light of how strongly Denison emphasizes engagement with difference, I’d be surprised if there were some action regarding student expression. For my left-liberal student, he has enjoyed the receptiveness to competing views, and that people are not demonized on either side of the spectrum.
Likely a sign of the times…everyone was pretty sensitive all around. It was more like the icing on the cake. I will say she had an amazing experience and follow up with the music department. But I do think kids are able to get a feel for whether or not they will fit in to some extent. No doubt it is a great school and is incredibly generous with merit aid.