Help with use of Fiske guide and college search for a First GEN college student.

College Search & Selection
1

I recently got the 33rd edition (2017) of the fiske guide to colleges. After reading the introduction bit and rating criteria, I went through the book marking the colleges that I felt fit my criteria (I did this quite quickly with intentions to mark MANY more colleges than I would choose to apply to). I will include a list of criteria below so you can get an idea. I also considered the fiske-specific ranking for academics, social life, and quality of life. I put strong weight into academics and considered quality of life. (didn’t really look at social life, most of the colleges that caught my eye had ratings of 3/5 in that category anyway)

General criteria I used, some factors I considered in the second pass through:

Considered, but low priority: Size of class (preferably smaller), Rah-Rah level (preferably less) Substance free housing/ Reasonable drug safety ( My mother wants this, but I’m convinced I can handle myself to stay substance free)

Reasonable importance: Location(close to home is preferred, midwest IL), Strong college town, Size of city/town (avoid large cities, rural is fine but a small town to medium city is preferred), size of undergrad enrollment (in the 1,000-2,000 range is okay, prefer in the area of 2000-3000)

Very important: weather (4 seasons, prefer to lean to the colder side, Is it silly to have this here?) Strong class( I prefer peers who are just as smart or smarter than I, I learn the most this way, I would not be satisfied In a school where I was WAY above average.) Strong research opportunities in mathematics, Academics must be the university’s first priority, Undergraduate focus

Must have: Strong Mathematics Dept./program, Music groups/opportunities(concert band and orchestra, (I guess it doesn’t have to be DIRECTLY related to the college, but I could not go without playing in a music group), Coed ( I simply would not go to a single gender school)

After going through the colleges, I found that I had overwhelmingly marked Liberal arts colleges. I also found that I had marked few colleges that I could call safeties. I found that the universities that I did choose to mark were usually super selective. I will include the list for more information.
I will also include stats here :slight_smile:
STATS
GPA UW:4
ACT:34 (34E 36M 32R 34S
SAT subject tests(may retake these):
Math:770

physics:710
List of marked schools:
Amherst
Bowdoin
Brown
Carleton
University of Chicago
Cornell
Dartmouth
Grinnell
Hamilton
Haverford
UIUC
Kenyon
Macalester
MIT
University of Michigan ann arbor
Oberlin
Princeton
Reed
St. Olaf
Swarthmore
Tufts
Vassar
WashU St. Louis
Wesleyan
William and Mary

So, finally, my questions:
Is there a better approach to my search? I am using resources like college data, college niche, and college board as well.
Is there an over-representation of Liberal arts colleges in my list? Is there a lack of match and safety schools, especially in the university category?
Is it in some way wrong to see too many LAC’s as a fit?
Are there any additions that seem to fit my criteria and list of schools?
Key differences between LAC’s and Universities that I should know?
Any marked colleges that do not make sense?
What resources should I use to decide between my potential list of colleges?

Thanks to any that decided to read all that text and reply. It is really appreciated.

2

There’s nothing wrong with an over representation of LACs if you prefer them.
There aren’t really clear differences between all LACs and all RUs - Dartmouth is more similar to Wesleyan than to UIUC, and Caltech is more similar to Harvey Mudd than to UAlabama.
I’m surprised UMich, as a huge OOS RU, is on there.
I don’t know about music, but if you’re okay with a large school and you don’t need a lot of need based aid, SUNY Albany might be a safety and Earlham could be if it’s not too small (just over 1k students).
Use net price calculators to determine that your list is affordable. Ask your parents for the numbers, don’t guess.
It might be difficult to get involved in the music at Oberlin as a non music major.
URochester might belong on your initial list, but has the same issue as Oberlin when it comes to music.

3

I think having all liberal arts colleges is fine. There are very selective ones and matches and safeties and they can all be liberal arts colleges. If you need a lot of financial aid it’s worth looking at who meets full need and who doesn’t.

4

… And run some net price calculators too.

5

Sounds like you have a good strategy.
BTW, Math + music + cold weather + small town = St Olaf.

6

@OHMomof2 I definitely value those who meet 100% need or close to it. Net price calcs are apparently iffy for small business owners, which my parents are.

7

@usualhopeful As far as you know are the fiske academic ratings (and social and quality ratings) worth putting weight into? Accurate? Should I use other information forms to compare the colleges in those categories.

8

Take those academic, social, and quality of life ratings with a huge grain of salt. It’s been a couple years since I looked at a Fiske guide…the narrative info is usually accurate and useful, but some of those ratings are odd. For example, I recall that Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, and Connecticut had academic ratings of 4 (out of 5), while U of Cincinnati had a ranking of 2…and it just doesn’t seem like there would be THAT much difference between the students, faculty, and facilities at Cinci and the others. But someone trusting those ratings would assume that those four colleges are WAY better than Cinci.
I think that if you are aware of how difficult it is to get hired as a professor at even third-rate colleges, you will feel confident that the faculty at almost every college you’ve heard much about is more than able to give you a decent undergraduate education. And it’s certainly not the case that the profs at Kansas or Iowa know something that might be covered in an undergrad course that the Cincinnati profs can’t grasp or teach.

9

Now you haunt the individual colleges’ own webpages, see what you learn directly from them. At first, you can start with, say, one of the LACs, see what they value and promote, curriculum requirements, professors in your interest area, activities, what you like and don’t. That makes it easier when you look up the next.

Fiske is just a start. The value is in so much info in front of you and how they note (I assume they still do) comparable schools.

And remember the equation is two parts: what you like in them/how you see your match, then what they will see in you that they’re looking for.

10

@moooop @lookingforward
Thank you so much for the comments.

11

I think the cost issue is a big deal for you. You say you need aid, but your parents have a small business. You need to start by finding safeties that you KNOW you can afford regardless of the aid, and would be willing to attend if it comes down to them. Look at in-state publics and guaranteed merit schools. They may not match your wish list, but in the end finances trump everything else. If you can’t afford them, then you can’t go. Might you be NMF? Start there, and then start looking at match/reach schools.

Run some NPCs with your parents’ info to start with. If those EFCs are unaffordable, then you know you have a problem (you will likely get less aid than is shown). You will have to talk to your parents about what they can afford, too.

If you find you have to chase merit aid, then you are going to have to look at schools where your stats are on the high end of the applicant pool. That is just how it is – that is who gets merit.

Lawrence is an LAC in your area that is a little lower cost to begin with, offers quite a bit of merit, and is strong in music and solid in math. (St Olaf is a more obvious low match, but might be pricier – if you get merit there, which you could, it will probably still be more expensive than Lawrence). But look at both.

12

^ that. And as you find those safetyschools, see what you do like about them. The other thing is to remember nearly every school you’ve named will have holistic admissions- meaning they look at more than stats, rigor, the activities during hs that made you a top kid in that one high school. You need to try to snoop out what sorts of responsibilities, commitments, and attributes matter to them.

13

Keep in mind that you could have some automatic merit safety schools that are more diverse in academic abilities and interests but there will also be groups of students that you would fit in with. Not everyone goes to games and there are honor programs at many of these big schools. I think I missed your major?

14

You might see if you can find out from your folks what their business income is before deductions…depending on the business that might get you closer to a real number. And/or, get an actual pre-read on financial aid form a college like Wooster that will actually do that (they send it back in a couple of weeks).

15

Regarding social life rankings, Fiske subtly appears to recommend against schools with a score of five, though this might not apply to your current choices.

16

^ “rankings” intended as “ratings.”

17

@merc81 do you have any opinions on the validity of the rankings?

18

You have great stats and being open to other geographical areas – including cold climate – will help.

Most of the schools on your list would fit the bill, but finances are the unknown that must be addressed.

Many of the LACs on your list give only need-based aid. It would be good for you to get an idea about what you are dealing with. It will be tricky because of your parents owning a business. Run a couple of net price calcs, maybe one or two for a 100% need met and another couple which do not claim to be (again, knowing that it will probably not be accurate due to business, but it is a start).

See if any ask about GPA and test scores on the net price calc.

Above all…Keep researching and posting, and don’t underestimate the practicality factor of many experienced posters on this website. You can get some great advice.

19

@ManaManaWegi : The star ratings would appear to have been compiled without the benefit of sophisticated methodology. However, you appear to have used them, as well as the guide overall, to clarify your own set of priorities in a way that has resulted in an excellent preliminary list.

Regarding your selection of a prevalence of LACs, you may simply see the benefits of a purely undergraduate-focused college education. This environment, not incidentally, has been correlated with greater cognitive expansion compared to university settings: “How the instructional and learning environment of liberal arts colleges [vs. research and regional universities] enhance cognitive development,” Pascarella, Wong, Trolian and Blaich.

20

From your current choices, these colleges are included in a Princeton Review sampling, “Great Schools for Mathematics Majors”:

St. Olaf
Macalester
Reed
Hamilton
Grinnell
Haverford
Carleton
Bowdoin
MIT
Chicago