Help!

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Hey! Okay so this might sound really weird, or maybe i'll sound like every other kid does at this point in their life, not sure, but either way I thought I could at least get this out there.</p>

<p>I just graduated from High School, and I've always been told that Med Schools, especially the more prestigious ones (please don't yell at me for saying that...) don't care about prestige and that I should go somewhere easy and fun. So that's what I did, I went somewhere i was a bit overqualified for: Penn State (I really hope I don't sound cocky by saying that, I mean nothing about it based on their academics or anything, i meant strictly that the numbers were in my favor based on my SAT and GPA.) Anyways, I'm looking very far into the future with this, I know, but I need as much of a start as I can manage, so here's what I'm going for.</p>

<p>I know for a fact this is an insanely difficult goal, but the least I can do is try.</p>

<p>My top two choices for med school are Yale and Harvard. Why? because prestige matters to me: I want to be the best. My senior year of high school every class I took was an AP because my during my junior year I couldn't stand the fact that I had free time or that others had more AP classes than me. It may sound pointless, elitist, or whatever, but I want to be as good as I can be. Now, I get that there are a ton of students just like me who would kill for a chance to make it into Harvard or Yale, admittedly with better reasons for wanting to attend :D But this still matters a lot to me. </p>

<p>Now here's where I need help! I understand fully that nobody is ever a shoo-in for Harvard or Yale, and I'm going into this fully aware that there's a good chance I won't make it in, but I'm really hoping I could help figure out what I could do to maximize my chances.</p>

<p>Under the assumption (which won't necessarily hold true) that I get a perfect GPA all 4 years of undergrad, what's the best approach? </p>

<p>1) Would Harvard or Yale care about the prestige of undergrad? I know this question has been thrown around here an endless amount of times, but I'm basically looking for advice as to whether or not I should try to transfer out of Penn State and go to something along the lines of UVa, or even hope for the best and apply to one of the Ivies itself, or would it literally mean nothing other than unnecessary coursework?</p>

<p>2) What kind of extracurriculars should I involve myself in? Obviously leadership positions are wanted, but leadership in what field? The only thing I know I'm going to be a part of is crew (rowing,) other than that I'm open to suggestions.</p>

<p>3) how do I conduct research? Everybody's always told me "get research opportunities!" I barely even get what that means... Do I approach a lab scientist and ask if I can work with him or something? I seriously have no idea what to do for that...</p>

<p>4) Community Service! I assume this is extremely important? I'd love to do some! I just need to know how to best approach it, how to make sure it's logged and verifiable etc. </p>

<p>5) Scholarships? I actually remembered seeing a post about getting into some prestigious Ivy for med school, can't remember which, and noticed someone said "unless you're blah blah blah and a rhodes scholar..." Which led me to wonder, does receiving certain scholarships carry any merit in med school applications? If so, which ones should I aim for? It would definitely help with the insane cost of med school.. hehe..</p>

<p>6) do I major in Biology or Premed?</p>

<p>7) What's the best way to prepare for mcats? I'm sure there are a ton of questions about this that float around just like the prestige thing, but how hard are they really? Is the low average attributed to a lack of effort preparing? Or are they really just that difficult? I'd love to score high enough to be competitive enough for Harvard/Yale, but I don't know how best to prepare other than study study study..</p>

<p>Anyways that's all I can think of on the spot, but I'd love any other information that I can be given, it's safe to assume that if I didn't include it in the list, I didn't know it was important in med school admissions. Really my goal is to just plan out what I have to do by the time I need to apply to med school and then just.. do it and hope for the best? I'm not sure how naive I sound, I'm guessing quite a lot, but at the same time I get that it's a tough goal, like, a REALLY tough goal. If all else fails at least I can say I tried. This might sound a little corny, but I'm often reminded of a quote that's written on the walls of my High School that reads "Shoot for the moon, even if you miss you'll land among the stars." Pretty sure it's self explanatory, thanks in advanced for the help!</p>

2

<p>Errr… Okay so I kinda feel bad because a few of those questions have been answered already (quite a few times in many cases)</p>

<p>but uhmm, I was asking more specifically in the case of Harvard and Yale.</p>

<p>In addition to this, I’m not sure if it’s worth mentioning I’m a Virginia resident, and in addition to applying to Harvard/Yale, I’ll also be applying to UVa and VCU (among many others.)</p>

<p>I’ve always been pretty good at speaking/writing, in terms of interviews and stuff, although I’m not sure how I compare to other students applying to these kinds of schools. </p>

<p>Anyways, that’s about all I’ve got! Hope this doesn’t sound too generic.</p>

3

<p>1) Not really</p>

<p>2) Whatever ECs you have a passion for. Seriously, med schools are looking for interesting individuals who have a range of interests and backgrounds. There is no magic formula.</p>

<p>3) Yes, that’s exactly what you need to do. Probably better to wait until after freshman year (and you’ve completed your freshman science labs) since you know nothing about lab procedures right now and could end up being more of hazard than a help. </p>

<p>4) Community service is expected. Lots of it. You will need to keep your own log of programs, locations, hours and the contact info of a supervisor who can verify your participation.</p>

<p>5) The only scholarships for med school are available thru the individual med school itself–and those are very few and far between. Mostly they’re used to attract tippy top applicants to lower ranked schools. </p>

<p>BTW, the Rhodes Scholarship is only for graduate program studies at Oxford. It cannot be used for anything else, including professional school in the US.</p>

<p>6) major in whayever you want. BTW, pre-med is NOT a major but a set courses that med schools require for admission. Please check with your school’s health professions advisor since admission requirements are changing.</p>

<p>7) Waaayyyyy too soon to even think about the MCAT. Concentrate on getting thru your first year of college without screwing up your GPA too much. </p>

<p>P.S. Don’t count on Penn State being “easy” based on your stats. The high scoring/high achieving kids are clustered in just a few majors–specifically STEM fields. You’ll find you have plenty of competition.</p>

<p>P.P.S. Also waaaaaay too early to even think about what med schools you want to attend. You don’t even know if you <em>like</em> medicine yet.</p>

4

<p>Thanks a lot for the response! </p>

<p>Yeah, I knew the thing about the Rhodes Scholarship, I was speaking more generally towards ‘big name’ scholarships carrying some sort of merit, but you answered that anyways so thank you! </p>

<p>But sorry about sounding arrogant about the whole Penn State thing, it really wasn’t what I was aiming towards, as I said I meant I was overqualified based purely on the numbers, chances are I -COULD’VE- gotten in somewhere with a more rigorous application process, I meant nothing about it’s level of academics or anything. That being said, in regards to it being ‘easy,’ I meant relative to a more difficult school (as redundant as that sounds.) </p>

<p>Anyways thanks for the awesome response! It really helps, and it’s a lot better than the condescending private message I got from some furious parent who was under the impression I was belittling Penn State as well as some other stuff… lovely…</p>

<p>But I’m aware it is pretty early to be thinking about specific med schools, even if it isn’t more than using prestige as a justification for wanting to attend somewhere. To be honest I don’t even know if I’ll stick with medicine as a career, I really don’t know much about it and I’m more into Physics and Math than I am in classes like Biology and Chemistry (that isn’t to say I’m not extremely interested in the latter two) At the same time however, I felt one of the things that could potentially set me aside from the unsuccessful applicants was that I would be preparing earlier. Worst case scenario I decide midway I don’t want to become a doctor or don’t want to attend Harvard or Yale or whatever and the extra work I’ve done is simply a boost to my future applications. (Actually worst case scenario is I get denied from every med school and my parents disown me then I get diagnosed with some serious disease then the world explodes or something… but skipping that…) </p>

<p>P.S. This really does show how little i know about the whole process, but I think pre-med is actually a major at penn state, at least it’s listed as one and i think my advisers have told me that I could major in it. It doesn’t make sense to me either, and chances are I’m probably wrong, but… yeah…</p>

5

<p>

I got to ask: Why do you single out these two schools? Most “wise” premeds will likely not pay so much attention to a couple of schools only. Most would apply to 15 to 25 schools, I think.</p>

<p>Sometimes I feel that, when a student does not attend one of these top schools for his/her UG study for whatever the reason it may be, he or she tends to be more obsessed with going to one of these schools at the graduate/professional school level. But this is just my observation (or bias).</p>

<p>Become a Rhodes Scholar, and then you will definitely have a good chance. (Just think about this aspect of med school admission, it is really not that different from the admission to UG. To get into a very top UG, you need an award that is rare (definitely beyond the level of your high school. Why would you think it willl be very different in this aspect for the admission to med schools?)</p>

<p>For example, if you have an EC that is at or above the state level, you could possibly have gotten into H college or Y college (and could pay less than what you would pay when you go to a state school if your parents are not rich.) A big question is: Are you capable of winning one of the big awards when you are a high schooler (for college admission) or when you are at ANY college (for med school admission). This is the reason why it is often said it is each individual’s effort that makes it happen, not the name of school (high school or college) you attend.</p>

<p>(OP, we cross-post each other so I did not read your latest post)</p>

6

<p>No worries at that last part!</p>

<p>Sorry, to clarify, Harvard and Yale were the two I wanted to get into most, I’m definitely not just limiting myself to the two, in fact the only reason I didn’t mention JHU with them was simply because it just doesn’t seem like my kind of school for personal reasons. </p>

<p>To be honest, the thing about me not attending for UG is probably true to some extent, although i don’t consciously feel that way. I mean, I hadn’t applied there for UG, but that isn’t to say I don’t regret it at some points had i been lucky enough to get in. I’m not sure, I guess I’ll figure it out eventually. </p>

<p>The whole Rhodes Scholar thing was just an example and totally hypothetical, although that’s a brilliant point about how it’s essentially the same principle as with UG admissions, my mistake there, probably could’ve figured that out on my own hehehe… I guess the question was more “does it matter much,” like would that interest a med school. </p>

<p>Actually, about the whole EC at or above the state level thing, I probably did have the opportunity to do this, but at the same time not really. I was really involved in rowing my last two years of High School, and I was decent at it, decent enough to make the 1st varsity boat on most successful teams. I’m not sure if you know much about rowing, but I don’t say that out of arrogance, in rowing, you can measure how effective you are at moving the boat through ergometer - rowing machine - tests, something I’ve always excelled at. (Although in all fairness there are other factors that would contribute to being put on the best boat, but i’m getting way off topic) Anyways part of what held me back was the depth of my school’s program, we just didn’t have that many good rowers, and my coach also wasn’t very ethical, putting her faster varsity rowers on Jv boats, showing extreme favoritism etc, so scholastically I never achieved much other than a few appearances at nationals and stuff. However I don’t blame my lack of success on that because I could’ve stepped up and taken charge, there were plenty of opportunities for me to say something, motivate my teammates, or even row unaffiliated over the summer, all of which I never bothered to do, so when it comes down to it the lack of success was my own fault.</p>

<p>ANYWAYS i got way off topic, what I was trying to say was that I was capable of possibly going somewhere with my ECs in high school, but I never bothered to try and earn it myself, something that could be fixed in college. (Plus Penn State Crew is kinda awesome)</p>

7

<p>Penn State is one of the few schools that does have a “pre-med” major.</p>

<p><a href=“http://science.psu.edu/premed/majorinfo[/url]”>http://science.psu.edu/premed/majorinfo&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

8

<p>oh cool thank you! so that brings me back to one of my original questions - is it worth going with the pre-med major? or is it safer to have a biology degree?</p>

<p>I assume having a bio major would give me more freedom, or I guess more appropriately freedom if I don’t make it into med school? are there incentives to going with the pre-med approach?</p>

9

<p>If math and physics is your passion–go for it! My husband had long and very successful career as a research (PhD) physicist at one of the National Labs. Physics is a fascinating and multi-faceted field. And as he liked to remind our doctor friends–evey single break-thru in imaging technology has come out of a physics lab first. (X-rays, CAT, MRI, fMRI, PET …)</p>

<p>My older D (now starting her second year of med school) has her undergrad degree in physics and math. She will doing her mandatory research thesis (Her med school requires everyone to do a research project and publish, not just MD/PhD students. It’s not ‘prestige’ school, btw, just a run-of-the-mill state school.) in materials science/mechanical engineering applications of tissue engineering for prostheses. She has found tons of physics applications in fields like pulmonology, cardiology, nephrology, radiology, radiation oncology…</p>

<p>My younger D (who will be applying to med school next cycle) has a math and neuroscience degree and is spending the next 2 years working in an interdisciplinary neuro-psychiatry and biomedical engineering research group at a top 10 med school. Her group is developing a new imaging technique to see real-time functional changes in brain structures. </p>

<p>I guess what I’m trying to say is physics vs. medicine doesn’t have to be an either/or. There are soooooo many fields that combine both. And you haven’t heard of 99.9% of them.</p>

<p>D1’s fall back was a PhD in Health Physics. (She was hoping to run cancer proton irradiation facilities.) D2’s fall back will be a MS in biomedical or neural engineering. (She’s interested in brain-prosthesis interfaces.) Or a PhD in computational neuroscience. (Developing computer models of the brain to understand how it works.)</p>

<p>Med school is not a be all – end all. There’s life afterwards even if you don’t get accepted or decide not to apply. Don’t get so hung up on it or your prestige obsession that you miss your whole college experience.</p>

<p>I guarantee your parents won’t disown you if you don’t to go to med school for whatever reason.</p>

<p>(As a parent I have to say I have very mixed feeling about medicine as a career. It’s an all consuming, difficult path that doesn’t leave much time for anything else.)</p>

10

<p>HAHAHAHA I was kidding about the disowning thing! </p>

<p>But thank you! That’s honestly really helpful, I’ll definitely keep an open mind to things like that!</p>

11

<p>

Sometimes I have the same feeling too. Now DS is on this path, I pray that DS would not choose one of those specialties that require very long and stressful years (6 years after med school for surgery? No thanks!)</p>

<p>On a light note: I heard a couple of weeks ago (or last weekend? I lost my sense about the time quickly these days, and it makes me worried), he finally had a “group date”, at least it looks like a group date to me. (3 males and 3 females go to the beach together, to beat the heat!) Didn’t he do such a thing back in middle or high school? Oops…I am off the topic. (Sorry to OP.)</p>

<p>In junior year in college, DS once mentioned that he sometimes envied those who are on the physics PhD track (like a girl who later attended a PhD program at Cal – for some reasons, he mostly hang out with those on the PhD track than those on the premed track while in college.) It took him some time before he finally settles down on his current medicine path (I think he made the decision around the time he took MCAT or less than half a year of his acceptance to a med school, which is pretty late for a premed.)</p>

12

<p>So let’s just put all this other junk aside and say you get to the point where you really are jonesin for an elite school.</p>

<p>What do students at elite med schools look like? Here are extremely brief profiles of students I personally know:</p>

<p>1) Ivy med. Ivy undergrad. 3.9+/40. Double majored in electrical engineering and biochemistry. Spent a few summers managing large quality improvement projects for a car company I’m sure you’ve heard of. Interested in surgery and global health. Spearheaded a grassroots organization that raised enough funds to build a pediatrics hospital in Latin America, and personally helped design it. Multilingual. Multiple published research articles during undergrad. </p>

<p>2) Ivy med (dual degree candidate). Ivy undergrad. Econ major. Studied/researched health systems in various poor countries (in South America, Asia, and Africa). Wrote policy analyses and position papers for well-known international agencies. Interested in health care delivery and has ambitions about working in health care policy or hospital administration in addition to practicing. </p>

<p>3) Ivy med. State school master’s (already completed). State school undergrad. D1 athlete. Extensive clinical and bench research during undergrad, resulting in multiple publications. Personal experiences with intense medical conditions. Impressive leadership positions during undergrad. Currently working with a very well-known doc (who has written several popular books). </p>

<p>As far as I can tell, stats don’t set you apart at elite schools–wickedly impressive achievements do. I don’t think you can accomplish the level of experiences necessary to end up at an elite school without intense dedication to something you are quite passionate about. </p>

<p>(Worth noting, I think, that not everyone even ends up wanting to go to an elite school. It’s easy for you to say, fresh out of high school, that you are different and that you are uniquely competitive and capable of achieving greatness that will get you into an elite med school. I think you’ve failed to recognize that a lot lot lot more goes into selection of medical school than prestige, and there’s so much time between the summer before freshman year and the summer of applying to med school that it’s probably too early for you to have your sights set on one of the top few schools in the country.)</p>