Helping GC- Donations welcome :)

Parent Cafe
1

<p>My GC, who has been great for me this year, has decided to put together a brochure for students from my school who are applying to selective colleges. He asked me for input as to what I did do in my college process that helped and what I wish I had done. Here is what I’ve come up with so far…any suggestions from yall would be great…</p>

<li><p>Apply EA/ED if possible. Sometimes financial situations don’t allow it, but if you truly feel you know where you want to be (or if it is a non binding EA option), then apply early. You find out before everyone else and have a better idea of where you stand on your college lists. Plus, the admissions rates for some schools (Columbia, Princeton, Penn) are practically tripled in this round.</p></li>
<li><p>Don’t apply only to highly selective schools. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. reject 9 out of 10 applicants every year. It is illogical to assume you will be the lucky one. Hope for the best, and research schools at all levels. Using admissions info from schools and your guidance counselor , find schools that statistically you are sure to get into but that you would also ACTUALLY attend. Then, come April, even if the Ivy dreams don’t work out, there are still other schools that interest you that are available. As a rule of thumb, I would shoot for:</p></li>
</ol>

<p>1-4 Reaches: Dream schools you would love to go to but the admissions rate is so low it’s a borderline crapshoot.</p>

<p>2+ Matches: Schools you have about a 50/50 chance at, that are a good match/balance for you academically</p>

<p>2 Safeties: Schools you KNOW you will get into. This could be a state school or another private school with less rigorous requirements. Take advantage of schools with rolling admissions so you know before Christmas break if you’re in </p>

<li><p>Know your financial situation. Every college has a different financial policy, and its important to know what your family can feasibly pay so you can look for good options. For example, the Ivy League and schools like Georgetown and Duke only offer need-based financial aid. However, other good schools such as Wash. U. St. Louis and U. of Chicago offer merit scholarships to excellent students.</p></li>
<li><p>Look at fit just as much as academics. When I started my search, I took a list of the approx. 100 schools in the US that offered my potential major. I then crossed off many for reasons such as location, school size, environment, etc. For example, Yale has excellent programs in my field of interest, but I hate New Haven, so I didn’t apply. I probably could do well academically there, but I wouldn’t necessarily be happy.</p></li>
<li><p>Organize and don’t procrastinate. It sounds cliché, but its awful when it’s Christmas break and everyone else is sipping wassail and singing carols while you’re typing away the applications on the computer. And, when it comes to financial info, organize, organize, organize. Make copies of everything you send to each school and save it in a file for that school, kept separate from other turmoil and messiness in the house.</p></li>
<li><p>Show interest. Part of college admissions is showing the college how much you want them. Some schools are actually know for something called “Tuft’s Syndrome,” which means they may waitlist or reject exceptional applicants because the admissions officer doesn’t feel they would actually attend the school. No school wants to feel like the back-up, so if at all possible, be sure to visit. Some other ideas include talking to/emailing your regional representative, contacting a professor at the school in your area of interest, or attending an info session in your area.</p></li>
<li><p>Find something unique about yourself. Good grades and SATs come a dime a dozen, and after 5000 applications, and Adcom will be sick of hearing certain clichéd stories as admissions essays (feel free to provide examples). When you do your application, and especially in writing your essays, try to target your interest or share something unique about you.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Thanks for the help…the future seniors of **HS thank you…</p>

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<p>c'mon, guys...comments, criticism, anything ...please???</p>

3

<p>I agree, I applied to 22 schools and the only way I could do it was by doing everything on the computer(backed up every day) and keeping a massive excel spreadsheet with all the info I need</p>

4

<p>Why is this brochure for kids applying to "selective colleges"? Iwould change that first. Many kids will be applying to other schools and to label the brochure as such needs to be rethought. It implies that students who are applying to "lesser" schools don't need the information. I may be reaching, but if the GC is focusing his energy on those kids with this brochure and his interest, he needs to be awakened to the rest of the student body.</p>

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<p>Well, after dd had an exceptionally good admit year, I'm almost feeling contrary to your advice. She was waitlisted for Yale, the only school on her final short list that she did not get admitted to. We were trying to be measured and not greedy, but if we had realized she was a contender, she might have applied SCEA. And even to some other uber's. Instead we treated it casually, like the long shot it was. She still has a great list and is perfectly happy. Mom is just slightly frustrated. I love our GC, but really, the Jr. year spring before he was talking about a nice respected top 40 local LAC that might give a full ride. By Sr EA this was not in the running and he was using a top 30 as backup. Now she is waitlisted and not even rejected at Yale--who would have thought? Not us.</p>

<p>If you get accepted EA somewhere, you can throw out any schools you want and forget about safety or reach unless you like the school. After EA, dd had a short list of 5. If we didn't have to worry about fin'l aid it could have been 2 or 3.</p>

<p>I think interest is over rated, but just because we had that experience doesn't make it so for everyone. dd did not call or visit any school except the one EA, but still had great acceptances.</p>

6

<ol>
<li><p>Discuss your financial expectations honestly and early with your student, especially if they are taking the lead in the research.</p></li>
<li><p>Set a "deadline" for essays and resume writing that is significantly ahead of the real deadline. Have the complete application ready for mailing or turned into the GC's office at least 3 days prior to the deadline (Our GC, packs and mails 6 applications for the kids, so they require apps in the office by Dec 1, it was Nov 29 this year; apps finished early is of those things like applying to a rolling admission school, it is simple to do and has a big payback in relief of stress)</p></li>
</ol>

<p>8 (The GC may not want to talk about this) Give thought to which teachers you will ask for recs. You may want to approach a junior year teacher late in the junior year, she may appreciate the opportunity to do the rec over the summer, or during teacher workday at the end of school. Recommendations need to be well written as well as personal.</p>

7

<p>I agree that the brochure should be written in such a way that it is not targeted only at students applying to the most selective schools but includes as well information that will be helpful to other students. As well, it should not be targeted only at seniors but at sophomores and juniors, as they will begin to think about colleges.</p>

<p>cangel's suggestions are good. Others would be to set a schedule for taking SAT, SAT-II, ACT. Suggestions about school visits (eg. summer after sophomore year, during breaks in junior year, summer after junior year. Students and parents should begin to explore "fit" in terms of school size, location, type of student body, and so forth.
Emphasize the need to apply to less selective schools that the student would be happy to attend (love thy safety).
Emphasize that the safety school has to be both an admission and financial safety.</p>

8

<p>Alita - I commend you for helping put together an informational brochure that will assist next year's Junior class. </p>

<p>In answer to your inquiry, you may want to add some suggestions on visiting colleges. Some parents, myself included, have a "no visit, no application" policy. Other parents are willing to defer visits until acceptance and financial aid are certain. Finding time to visit 30 campus' to assemble an application list of ten presents one set of problems. Finding time in April of your Senior Year to visit six campus' you have been accepted to but never seen involves a completely different set of issues.</p>

<p>Good luck with your project.</p>

9

<p>My school already has a lot of information for students applying to public universities, although I do agree that information on less selective private schools would be helpful. However, the idea for this came from the suggestion from several parents (not mine) that since our counselors do not have the time to individually address and counsel students applying to these colleges, there be some info available as a sort of self guide. </p>

<p>Although it is probably not the best situation, most students from my school go to community college, state schools, or nearby out-of-state public schools. Our counselors are also very good with students who are applying to nearby private schools. It's those students applying to selective or far away private schools that are kind of on their own. </p>

<p>The brochure, although targeted more towards selective colleges, will be available to all. I think our gcs goal in this is to make students think realistically about where they are applying, and how they are doing it.
Although not a perfect idea, I think it would help.</p>

<p>Bettina-I'm not sure if we're in agreeance (sp?) or not...I think I was saying what you mentioned-that applying EA does (at least numbers wise) significantly increase chances and that it is worth looking at as an option....correct me if I misinterpreted your post</p>

<p>Cangel-Thanks for the advice. I don't think my gc will mind mentioning that; he's pretty straightforward as far as that goes.</p>

<p>Marite: The brochure will probably be used mainly by juniors/seniors solely because of procrastination, but it will be available in our gc lobby for all. Thanks for the catchphrase (love thy safety) and the visit stuff-completely slipped my mind.</p>

<p>NewHope33: Thanks...I feel like after 1-2 years on this board and a year long admissions process that thankfully had a happy ending, its the least I can do. After all, in my experience, even if you learn from someone else's mistakes, youll still find your own to make...so the more help the better :) I will definitely include the visit info...</p>

<p>Thank you so much...I showed my gc the prelim stuff above today and he liked it so I guess I'm going in the right direction...</p>

10

<p>Alita:</p>

<p>It really is good of you to take the initiative. If the brochure gets widely publicized, it may inspire some students to think about applying to more reaches, but it may also inspire some to take more challenging courses. A sentence about taking the most challenging courses as preparation for applying to more selective colleges might catch the eye of some freshmen or sophomores and lead them to sign up for such courses. That would be a wonderful outcome of your effort.</p>

11

<p>That's true...I guess adding a "Before senior year: How you can prepare for applying to college" section would be beneficial. I know I was shocked when I realized soph/junior year that coasting by with a 3.5/3.75 wasn't enough for the top schools. Thanks for the advice.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
The admissions rates for some schools (Columbia, Princeton, Penn) are practically tripled in this round

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't how you could word this a little differently but I know of students during my daughter's application year who were unaware that at many schools the legacy, athletic, development and other "hooked" candidates are encouraged to apply early. That ups the overall admission rates for early applicants but doesn't necessarily up non-hooked early applicants admission numbers as much as it would seem at first glance. It can be misleading. Unfortunately the colleges don't seem to give information broken down in a way that would allow students to truly access a school's EA/ED advantage.</p>

13

<p>I'd definitely separate the ED and EA discussions as they are two totally different animals. And I guess I would try to discourage ED a bit more. . .force the families to understand the potential pitfalls in that application mode.</p>

14

<p>Unqualified approval of your brochure outline from here--</p>

<p>I believe it is a superb summary of the many useful conversations going on all the time on CC's boards...it's general, but it's supposed to be general. If I understand the concept correctly, its purpose is to help students frame the process of creating their college lists.</p>

<p>The only thing I'd add is a section on "fudge factor"...note that these guidelines are in fact general, and work well in general--but that specific students and specific situations might vary, and still be successful--e.g., my S categorically refused to visit college campuses prior to acceptance--his view--which I fully understand, particularly after his SCEA rejection--was why fall in love w/a place he wouldn't be allowed to attend? But hugely important here is the fact that to him, "place" was not an important factor--he could care less what a campus looks like or "feels" like--he believes he'll find his niche anywhere. And so he made his selections based on web research, e-mail correspondence with the schools that interested him, and with students at those schools. This worked well for him, although it's a departure from the "usual" (good) advice to visit if you can.</p>

<p>I also think it's worth a "caution" in the "visit if you can" section--lots of kids and their families CAN'T--for logistical and/or financial reasons. Don't leave the impression that the college search is doomed to failure (or less than ideal results) if visits are just not going to work in a student's real world...</p>

<p>Anyway--GREAT job...I think your outline is so good that you could seriously consider expanding it a mite and turning it into something that would be valuable on a national basis...ask your GC if one of the GC assn's might want to reproduce copies to make available to GCs nationwide! (Maybe you could even sell the idea!!!)</p>

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<p>Elleneast-Good point. I'll have to mention that...thanks!</p>

<p>Reidm-I agree with you. I'm just not quite sure how to explain that without going into a long and detailed explanation of what EA, EASC, and ED are. Any ideas?</p>

<p>Overanxious-Thanks. And in reference to your son, I completely sympathize. Although I visited my schools, I purposely refrained from making any numbered or pro/cons list. I figured with a 9/10 chance I wouldn't get in, it would be easier not to waste my time until I knew what my true options were. Although I think visiting is a good idea, everyone is different, and if it worked for your son, more power to him! Ironically, though, the school I will be attending was my shortest visit-info session, campus tour, out to eat, and leave...but I guess I'll get to know it better next year! </p>

<p>I could never sell my idea, it's not really mine. After all, my gc asked about it, and without all of yall I never would have learned have the information I know now. But hey, its on here and this is pretty national :) </p>

<p>And, of course, I will be referring all of the future seniors at my high school to the wonderful parents at college confidential ;)</p>

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<p>"I'm just not quite sure how to explain that without going into a long and detailed explanation of what EA, EASC, and ED are. Any ideas?"</p>

<p>For each, a three-sentence definition and a listing of pros and cons. Review and make sure that it is clear how they can and cannot be used together. If it isn't clear, finish with a note on that subject.</p>

17

<p>"1. Apply EA/ED if possible. Sometimes financial situations don’t allow it, but if you truly feel you know where you want to be (or if it is a non binding EA option), then apply early. You find out before everyone else and have a better idea of where you stand on your college lists. Plus, the admissions rates for some schools (Columbia, Princeton, Penn) are practically tripled in this round."</p>

<p>ED is a good idea for the 5% of families in the country who can pay full freight. (Maybe you go to a rich school - nothing wrong with that.) There is no evidence that ED helps admissions rates for financial aid applicants one iota. It might, but it's counterintuitive.</p>

18

<p>Most of my school will only attend college with financial aid, so thats certainly a valid point (its the reason so many stay in-state for school; one of our public schools is especially generous with merit aid).</p>

<p>Maybe change the focus there to EA, and mention ED as an alternate option for those who can afford it? </p>

<p>As a side note, are there any schools it is relatively safe to apply to ED?</p>

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<p>Only 5% can afford full freight???</p>

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<p>??? Never seen any statistics...</p>