Helping your kids consider what college major they will choose

Parents Forum
21

Looking back (my oldest graduates in May), I wish this was a decision I had not weighed in on. I will not be working in any field she picks. And while some fields seem more employable than others, there are very successful people in every field. I think my oldest would be in a different place if not for outside influences.

My approach with my youngest has been much more hands off. I think this is better for all concerned. Oh, and she was considering a studio art major for a while. Might still minor in it.

22

It’s really wonderful to be a kid who does not have a problem with math. It expands the student’s options so much.

23

Unless your daughter wants a particular career-oriented major (engineering, nursing, accounting), I think she should pick a college based on location, size, academics, and “vibe” just like anyone else. She can go in undecided if she likes: many do. She may end up changing majors more than once.

I still think the college years should be a time to explore interests and develop as a person. This may sound old-fashioned or unrealistic, but in doing so, I really do believe that the financial end of things will work out. It is scary to take the leap of faith and hope that our kids’ interests (and majors) will lead to financial stability, in this day and age of high costs and loans. Sometimes I think humanities majors zig and zag a little more after graduation until they find their niche, but not always, and that exploration is also worthwhile.

I think that overplanning can backfire and actually limit opportunities. It is good to stay open to all kinds of possibilities. In practical terms, that means choosing schools that offer a number of majors and options and then watching your kid from afar as they try them out.

Finally, the job market is complex and some well-paying, fulfilling jobs are not easily categorized or prepared for. Certainly a high schooler does not as yet have a sophisticated idea of the employment possibilities, and so many think in terms of engineering, medicine, law and so on almost by default. But there are many options, and the ability to read, write and think analytically will gain entrance to many of them after graduation.

24

I heartily agree with compmom.

25

My d’s high school has a very comprehensive senior project. Kids research multiple careers, including education needs, job prospects, salaries, advancement, and so on. They take all the aptitude tests. They narrow down to a couple of choices and set up job shadowing. D was SURE she was going to major in Chemistry, and shadowed careers such as forensic scientist and art restoration expert. We thought she was all set. Until she got to college and announced that she wanted to major in either Political Science, History, or Economics. Didn’t see that coming! But I’m glad she hadn’t pigeon-holed herself into a school where such a change would have been difficult. She’s now majoring in History and Classical Civilizations with a minor in English. Not sure where it will take her in life, but she’s getting a great education.

26

InigoMontoya, that’s a great story. I love it when students encounter a field they didn’t know much about and love it.

For some reason, public schools are really big on the computer aptitude tests (my daughter was told she would conduct an orchestra or be a clown!). Personally I dislike this premature emphasis on career choice. I think projects like the one you describe are meant to motivate, but honestly they convey the idea that college is vocational, and although college certainly improves career prospects, most college programs are still academic, not vocational :slight_smile:

One of my kids did not go directly to college and many of her friends didn’t either. Ironically, with all this focus in high school on career, the school did little for the kids who weren’t college-bound. That is a group that could use some of this direct school to job support.

27

thanks for the chart. i printed it out for my two teens. nice share.

28

Clown conducting an orchestra for the win! :O)

Like you I ambivalent on aptitude tests - I think sometimes they are self-fulfilling and may cause a kid to stereotype herself, if that makes sense.
I do think it’s good for kids to figure out what their strengths / talents are and develop those.

29

@Compmom “Unless your daughter wants a particular career-oriented major (engineering, nursing, accounting), I think she should pick a college based on location, size, academics, and “vibe” just like anyone else…I think that overplanning can backfire and actually limit opportunities. It is good to stay open to all kinds of possibilities. In practical terms, that means choosing schools that offer a number of majors and options and then watching your kid from afar as they try them out.”

Going in without a plan, explore lots of things, keep your options open, and find what is right for you, sound good conceptually. However, what I notice is that in doing this you are really not keeping your options open at all. The options are closing rapidly and the student can be limited to some form of humanities major before they even realize they have made any decision. So the “Keep your options open” strategy seems to end up being a “College is for liberal arts and humanities” strategy.

I think that what I am suggesting to her is the true “Keep your options open” strategy. This means taking the path that keeps the most options open until you are ready to actively close them. I think, the way to keep the most options open is to be sure that the college she chooses has good liberal arts and sciences, but also has more career oriented majors available. If the college doesn’t have career options, then those options are closed to the student unless they want to pursue a graduate degree.

When she gets to college, I am encouraging her to explore her interests, but to continue to take math and science unless/until she is ready to make an active decision that that is not the way she wants to go, because if you don’t have those abilities then you have closed down a bunch more options. It is much easier for a second year math, science, or engineering student to decide to switch to humanities than the other way around. I assume that she will change majors more than once, like most kids, as she discovers her interests and talents, but this way she has a much broader field of options to choose from.

I know that this in not thinking about this “just like anyone else,” but I am fairly analytical and really don’t have faith that what everyone else is doing is the best way unless I understand it. Therefore, I am trying to think this through logically.

How am I thinking about this wrong? I am completely open to criticism.

30

I found this interesting. Made me go back and roughly calculate my own career earnings. I already outstrip every major on the chart by a fair amount at the age of 52 (although it doesn’t feel like it… private school educations and college for two kids munched up a lot of it!), and my major is only a few above the “All Majors” bar.

But what this got me wondering about is how backward looking this chart is. For example, aerospace engineering. We saw a huge boom in the last 50 years in airplane and spacecraft design. But will that same “boom” in work continue into the future? I am sure there will be many well-employed aerospace engineers in the future, but will it continue at the level it has in the past? Also, if more students flock to a major because of strong career potential, will that dilute the market and push down wages?

I also wonder how many of these majors are working in their fields. I don’t actually work in my major (and never have, first job out of college was something else, and I have generally continued in the field). D1 doesn’t work in her field of study, but has done very well with the company she joined. It would be interesting to see this tied to what fields people actually DO end up working in with a specific major. And a bell curve for each major would be interesting. Do a few VERY successful artists push up the average for the rest?

31

You’re not thinking about it wrong, but here’s another approach.

Some majors are highly structured and sequential. Others are not.

A few posts back, there was a story about a chemistry major who got to college and decided to switch to a social science. It was easy to do so. It would not have been so easy in the other direction. The chemistry major is highly structured and sequential. If you don’t take the right courses in the right order, starting with freshman year, you may have to spend more than 8 semesters in college. That’s expensive!

So I think of it this way. If a student has several possible majors in mind, I think it’s best to go in with a plan to do the most structured, sequential major. It’s much easier to drop out of chemistry (or engineering or nursing) than to drop in. At the same time, though, the student can fill elective slots with courses from the other potential majors or use them to fulfill general education requirements in most instances. That gives the student a chance to explore the other possibilities.

When I started college, I planned to major in psychology (not very structured), but I was also considering biology (fairly structured, though not as bad as chemistry or engineering). I made sure to take the courses that would keep me on track in the sequence for the biology major, as well as taking psych courses and other courses to fulfill general education requirements. To my surprise, I liked biology a lot better than psychology. I switched majors, and I was not behind in completing the biology major requirements.

32

“Do a few VERY successful artists push up the average for the rest?”

It should not, because the chart is “Median.” So Mark Zuckerberg’s income would not shift the entire Computer Science group, for example.

33

I think the issue here is not that most people don’t think about major. It’s definitely considered, as most kids have at least some ideas of the areas in which they’re interested and have some talent. Once those areas of possible concentration are identified, then families focus on school “fit” - finding the right school for the student that offers opportunities in any area they might wish to study. No one is sending a student who wants to study music to a school that doesn’t have music programs just because it’s a “fit” socially or size-wise. Just like anyone who thinks they want engineering should start their college list based on schools with accredited engineering programs.

Major isn’t the most significant focus because it’s likely to be the most variable. A student that wants to be at a large sports-oriented school can find plenty to choose from that offer their potential majors. A student that wants to be at a mid-sized private with Greek life - same thing. Small schools take some closer looking at to make sure there are adequate offerings in possible majors, especially in the sciences.

Students are going to spend 4 years at the school - you want them to be satisfying academically, socially, and in so many other ways. It’s a lot easier to change majors than it is to transfer schools, especially if you have merit scholarship money to attend a school.

34

“Liberal arts and sciences” are preparations for careers as well. That was part of the point.

It is true that if your daughter truly wants computer science, engineering, nursing, accounting or another very specifically career-oriented program, she needs to start early with foundational courses, and can switch out to more flexible majors later. (Music is also sequential and rigorous. Many humanities majors are, actually.)

I would not rely on aptitude tests or career exploration projects unless your daughter has a clear “passio” for a certain path, based on real experience and knowledge of the field. If she enters, say, engineering for a BS, which is pretty intense, she will never be able to explore literature or social science with any depth. So every choice is limiting in some way- that’s the nature of life I guess.

In my experience, parents don’t pick colleges (except by providing a budget) or majors. If your daughter has a strong drive toward something that’s great, but it is, I think, misguided to guide her toward what you think will make for the highest paying career, for instance. College years are a time to evolve and there are many roads to supporting oneself.

Full disclosure, I have one who majored in CS but I feel he really didn’t get a broad education, and his prospects may ultimately be more limited than my humanities major kid. (You and I may have opposing biases!!)The important thing is they each followed their interests and were happy with college, and both have a way to support themselves this year.

35

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-Degrees_that_Pay_you_Back-sort.html was mentioned in another thread. Note that the mid-career 90th percentile of almost all majors earns a very good income. But the mid-career 10th percentile and median incomes are a different story. I.e. those who are the best in the job market do well from any college major background.

But also note that some majors have narrow differences between the 10th and 90th percentile (e.g. physician assistant, nursing, most engineering), while others have wide differences (e.g. music, anthropology, film). The “narrow” range ones appear to be mostly those where, due to external accreditation and licensing requirements, they “weed out” those weaker at the subject while in college. The “wide” range ones may be majors where the minimum level of rigor can vary considerably between schools and departments, so the less rigorous schools can graduate weaker students in those majors who will not have much chance of getting good major-specific jobs.

Of course, some graduates do well moving into jobs that are not associated with their college majors. But these jobs probably also have a “wide” range in pay outcomes between the 10th and 90th percentiles also.

An under-appreciated factor in considering job and pay prospects associated with college and major is that someone who is frugal with his/her money and avoids high levels of debt can live very comfortably on a pay level that a spendy and indebted person would struggle with. The frugal person therefore has more choices of jobs and careers (and indirectly college majors) than the spendy person, who faces greater pressure to find the highest pay level. Note also that coming from a wealthy or poor family is also a factor – someone from a wealthy family is likely to have a family who is able and willing to help tide him/her through periods of unemployment (including possibly right after graduation) while s/he looks for the job with the best career development, while someone from a poor family may feel financially pressured to take the first job that comes along.

36

Great post ucbalumnus.

37

“I would not rely on aptitude tests or career exploration projects.”

I have not found these to be as useful as they are supposed to be. Sometimes spot on, sometimes not even close. Questions like “Do you like to work outside?” really depend on what the weather is like and a lot of details that are not addressed.

“In my experience, parents don’t pick colleges (except by providing a budget) or majors.”

I am not trying to pick colleges or majors for her. I think it is important that she owns her college choice and major. What I am doing is trying to provide her with information, and help her keep as many options open as possible until she decides that she is not interested in them. It seems to me that a lot of student think they have kept all options opened, while in reality they have closed down many options without realizing they did. They are pretending that they have not really made a choice, but in reality they have been making them all along.

“If your daughter has a strong drive toward something that’s great, but it is, I think, misguided to guide her toward what you think will make for the highest paying career, for instance.”

Again, I am trying to guide her toward keeping her options open until she is actively ready to close them. I am also providing her with as much information as I can while she actively explores her choices. I am not trying to actively guide her to any career that she is not interested in. I do think that for a student with multiple interests, it is worth considering the typical salary differences for different jobs while noting that talented people who are very good at what they are doing, do well no matter what area they are in.

I do not think that driving a student toward a particular choice is a good idea, but I also do not think that withholding information that may be helpful so that they can “discover their own path” is a good idea, if doing that eliminates the possibility of several potential careers.

It is hard for me to understand how it is better to “allow them to decide for themselves” while, at the same time, not providing information to help them make an informed decision or even to point out that some paths are closing down potential options. If she says that she understands that attending college X means that she will not have engineering, business, or nursing majors available, that is fine, but at least it is a conscious decision instead of trying to pretend that she in not making one.

I am still trying to understand why there is an objection to my thought process, or why it may not be the best approach for my daughter.

As I understand it so far, the objections to this thought process seems to be:

  1. It is not be how most people do it.
  2. Concern that the "thought process" is actually a rationalization for shoving her toward the highest paying jobs.
  3. The view that career-oriented majors are inferior to liberal arts and humanities majors because the student is getting more broadly educated in the latter case. Therefore, it is fine to eliminate them without discussion.

What other objections am I missing?

38

No, I don’t think that is the thought process at all. Every family is different and on here, we express our ways of doing things sometimes as a sort of devil’s advocate. I was just trying to say that no matter what you do, you are closing off options, that is inevitable! Noone is objecting so much as telling you, from a long term perspective with kids now well out of college,that it is good for the kids to choose and a little confusion isn’t a bad thing.

39

It’s an interesting chart, but I’m personally glad I don’t have parents that would have seen a projected income for my major (in the bottom of the ranking) and go on to discourage me from pursuing it. I think this sort of thing must differ by family. I wouldn’t be one to equate a salary to success; it might indicate it, but then so do lots of things.

And of course, it seems like another way of implying STEM majors are intrinsically more valuable than humanities majors - but that’s beside the point.

40

My D1’s boyfriend wasn’t sure about major going into college. He spent time with the CollegeBoard book of majors, and flagged those he thought seemed interesting. He picked out a few majors from that, and took a couple of classes in each area his first 3 semesters of college. He figured one class wasn’t a good indicator – a good or bad professor, or covering just one area of the major wouldn’t give him a good enough perspective on it. He also spent time with the career/placement office at his college to see what kinds of jobs students with those majors were landing when the graduated. I am sure he looked at salary surveys as well. Your D could take an approach like that.