Here is an example of well-intentioned law producing rediculous result

Parent Cafe
121

<p>dad05,</p>

<p>I get it, you and your S REALLY love wrestling and it upsets you that FSU dropped it (along with other sports). You complain about only 82 or 83 schools that still offer it and the demand. </p>

<p>Actually if the demand were there, wrestling would still be at more schools. Not all the 340,000 HS wrestlers want to continue on in college. Alot of things change in a person's make up in college. Some of them, find new and different sports that bring back that fire we had when we were 13 and playing. </p>

<p>I always thought my S would play soccer in college, he was good enough to play, but somewhere in that process his interest wained a bit. College is full of new bright shiny things to try. The commitment of 6 days a week and 21+ hours to soccer would mean having to skip alot of other things that were new to him. I felt worse than him about it as I loved watching my kids play sports. I only missed a couple of games in their entire youth and I felt terrible about that.</p>

<p>What I found after my no more soccer grief is I would watch my kids play tiddly winks, cause I just enjoy watching my kids "play". So since soccer went to the backburner and water polo and then LAX came into the mix. Since we are 250 miles apart, I can't make every game anymore, but when I go, it's just like watching him at 5 or 15. I learned a new sport and he's happy playing them.</p>

<p>Dad's and son's (or daughters) sports plans change. Rather than focus on what you can't or aren't willing to do, encourage him to find something else and then pull up a lawn chair and enjoy it. Because it comes down to, do you watch your son wrestle because it's wrestling or because it's your son? </p>

<p>I understand you and yours love wrestling. We loved and still love soccer, but we also learned how fun LAX can be. Maybe your son is a rugby player at heart and deep down inside would you enjoy watching him use his wrestling experiences to beat the snot out of the other side for 80 minutes, rather than a couple minutes wrestling?</p>

122

<p>
[quote]
Wisteria, I am guessing you are not much on sports. You might be surprised to find that you don't have to be a superstar to have sports impact you in your education, in your career and in your life. Participation teaches a lot.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, I am much on sports and I agree that participation teaches a lot.</p>

<p>I am much on participatory sports, not on spectator sports.</p>

<p>I think club sports and intramurals are fantastic and give a much broader segment of the student population the opportunity to participate. </p>

<p>Club sports and intramurals also cost a lot less than $10K per student on average.</p>

123

<p>Opie, your son moved to a different sport by choice. Dad's son is having his choice taken away. No comparison.</p>

<p>I think it is arrogant on your part to just flippantly tell him he might be a rugy player at heart. What if girls who wanted to be doctors had that option taken away & we told them they'd love careers as file clerks? Try it, you might enjoy it!</p>

<p>Wrestling programs are starting to die off at the h.s. level because the boys realize there aren't too many programs at the next level. They are forced to concentrate in a less desired sport if they want to leverage athletic ability in the college admissions process.</p>

124

<p>
[quote]
wisteria, if you want to cout out all school sports at all levels (HS), then I can understand your point.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't want to count out all school sports at all levels, but I think it's worth considering costs and benefits when choosing which sports to sponsor.</p>

<p>I think there's something to be said for emphasizing sports in high school and college that students will be able to continue on their own long after they leave high school or college. I still remember both my parents playing pickup basketball well into their forties. My mother still plays doubles tennis in her 70s.</p>

<p>I will admit that I have never understood the benefits of wrestling and I'm quite dubious about football.</p>

<p>A well-run intramural program and club sports can offer many of the benefits of varsity sports to a much broader segment of the population at much lower cost than varsity programs.</p>

<p>The cost of varsity programs is high, and not always just in budgetary terms. There is an opportunity cost to the students involved--the time demands of a varsity sport are so heavy that (unless they are superhuman like a very select few, e.g., curmudgeon's daughter) it cuts into time and energy available for other things. Princeton's former president Bowen studied athletes in considerable depth across many colleges and universities and found that they were all too often a separate culture, a group unto themselves, isolated from the mainstream of the student body. Steroid use and eating disorders are also associated with some sports.</p>

125

<p>
[quote]
A well-run intramural program and club sports can offer many of the benefits of varsity sports to a much broader segment of the population at much lower cost than varsity programs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Many of the most competitive varsity program schools offer extensive intramural opportunities. These schools also attract large numbers of kids who participated in varsity sports in h.s. It's part of the culture, much as the culture in your college, with its singing circles, did not focus on athletics. </p>

<p>I agree that athletes should be integrated in the campus. Some colleges are committed to that ideal & don't allow seperate jock dorms.</p>

126

<p>


Uhhhhh ... whoa there....my unit hasn't proven anything yet. I believe she is waaaaay over-extended and doubt she can keep her schedule up. I have no idea what will fall away, maybe sports. Or at least one of them. </p>

<p>I have never tried to hoist my kid up onto a pedestal on cc and I won't start now. She's no superstar athlete. Quite the contrary actually . She may never see a college gym floor with the clock turned on. Most of what she does on the court is heart and hustle, plus some smoke and mirrors. It does not come easy to her like math and science. It is going to be a tremendous challenge.</p>

127

<p>"Opie, your son moved to a different sport by choice. Dad's son is having his choice taken away. No comparison.</p>

<p>I think it is arrogant on your part to just flippantly tell him he might be a rugy player at heart. What if girls who wanted to be doctors had that option taken away & we told them they'd love careers as file clerks? Try it, you might enjoy it!"</p>

<p>SS,</p>

<p>FSU also dropped men's soccer. :) </p>

<p>Son's choices are being reduced, not eliminated. It means he has to be really good to play varsity. Sort of like you have to be really good to play soccer, football, basketball in college. 82 or 83 schools where he can wrestle at, he just has to be good. </p>

<p>Actually I sense since the complain revolves around FSU dropping the program, dad is upset because it will mean inorder for his son and him to watch his son, they may have to attend school in the midwest, instead of a drive. </p>

<p>I don't think it's arrogant at all to say what I have. Are you implying his dad should refuse to watch him play another sport? Should the dad love wrestling more than his son? My point is enjoy what your kid does, because you enjoy your kid first. No one likes to see their children disappointed, not me, you or him, but it happens everyday to somebody. Why not look at the bright side? </p>

<p>As far as my daughter and med school. Well the son is applying right now. He has 30 schools to choose from. He has to be better than alot of other people to get there. My D wants to be a vet, she has 28 schools to choose from, so she'll have to be better than the rest. While I have empathy for the situation, 83 schools is still a hell of alot more choices to play a sport than my kids have for a career. They understand they have to be better than alot of other applicants to get there. </p>

<p>"Wrestling programs are starting to die off at the h.s. level because the boys realize there aren't too many programs at the next level."</p>

<p>Or quite possibly boys and girls are changing to sports that interest them?<br>
Not a chance huh? </p>

<p>"They are forced to concentrate in a less desired sport if they want to leverage athletic ability in the college admissions process" </p>

<p>FORCED? :) they are forced? :)</p>

128

<p>Father05: I don't respond to cheap shots. If you choose to ignore a valid point, that is YOUR issue. Please, either post something thoughtful or nothing at all.</p>

129

<p>wisteria,</p>

<p>While you may find the competition involved in wrestling to not be beneficial after "retirement", which by the way can continue well past 50 at the national and world level, the skills and cross-training required for wrestling mean that these athletes are often among the best all around athletes from any sport. They are usually strong, flexible, agile, and in great cardiovascular shape. As an aside, last season's Pros vs. Joes on Spike TV was won by a wrestler, despite the fact it concentrated on football, baseball, track and basketball. </p>

<p>Opie, personally I never wrestled, I was a swimmer. There is another sport being thrown under the bus by colleges. Particularly those with women's teams that drop their men's teams. And there is demand for wrestling. NAIA Notre Dame College in Cleveland started up a wrestling team this year. They had over 40 kids on their roster by the end of July. They announced it in April. Wrestling is the 6th most popular HS sport for boys. There are no where near that level of NCAA teams. BTW, wrestling is also one of the few NCAA sports to sell out it's championships. All 4 sessions, every year. About 16,000+ per session, months before they are held, in a sport that only 82 schools have. How are those LAX finals drawing??</p>

130

<p>aries,</p>

<p>It's not a cheap shot. You can try out for a men's team, football if you want. There have recently been girl kickers on college roesters. Women have tried out for men's wrestling teams and made the squad. And they count as a man to the NCAA and "proprtionality". Please explain to me the logic behind this, and please explain to me the reason that cheerleaders should not be counted against the women's portions of athletes.</p>

131

<p>Opie,</p>

<p>Nice try....</p>

<p>My kid already attends a D3 in Ohio and I live in PA, so you only missed by about 2,000 miles. I know no one at any school in CA at all or FSU in particular.</p>

132

<p>"How are those LAX finals drawing??"</p>

<p>So it is about wrestling with you and not your son? </p>

<p>You missed my point didn't you? It isn't which sport is "better" than the other, it's what's available where your kid decides to go. Heck, I had no prior love for LAX, before my kid took it up. I enjoy it, because I enjoy him, not the other way around. </p>

<p>You can choose to be bitterfaced about the lemons you've recieved or you can try and make lemonaide out of it. </p>

<p>Would I have loved to watch my kid play soccer in college? absolutely. Didn't work out that way, so I love to watch him run real fast and hit people full speed and smack them with a long stick. He found happiness on a LAX field and that's all that matters to me. </p>

<p>Do you understand my point?</p>

133

<p>"My kid already attends a D3 in Ohio and I live in PA, so you only missed by about 2,000 miles. I know no one at any school in CA at all or FSU in particular"</p>

<p>Sorry, I got that impression from you as you brought the school up I think. Maybe because they just did it?</p>

<p>My, you're kind of a testy poster aren't you? I'm sympathic to your situation, but I'm starting to drop the "sym" part of the word when I read your responses. You really don't get where I'm coming from do you?</p>

134

<p>Actually you keep telling me LAX, and that I just don't get. Yeah it was a little smart a**, but you said basically there is no demand for wrestling. That is BS. I couldn't tell you one HS near me that has a LAX team, but our district (one of 13 statewide) has about 80 HS wrestling teams. The demand is quite large. That's why wrestling is an easy target. It usually has a pretty big roster because it is a "popular" sport, and there is no like girl's sport. </p>

<p>Personally, my kid only started in 9th grade and I was less than thrilled. Turns out I had been missing a fabulous sport for a long time. You never know until you try.</p>

135

<p>And there's upward of 600,000 kids that play soccer in my state and only 2 D1 men's programs, 3D1 girls, 3 D2 men's and 4 D2 womens and around 4 m&w D3. Shouldn't there be more?</p>

<p>There's a demand for everything, schools make choices. I don't disagree or want you to think I'm putting down grappling, but on the other hand, if it's not there, it's not there. </p>

<p>All the *****ing in the world is not going to bring it back. That's a business decision certain colleges made. T9 just helped them find a way to act without facing responsibility for the action. "it's not us, we love wrestling." This is the only "way" we can comply. </p>

<p>You and I don't have to like it. However, my point has been find something else to enjoy watching your son do. I don't need to fight with you over the merits of wrestling, I don't disagree. I'm not the one you need to convience. I was just trying to point out what you can do instead. You certainly don't have to play LAX, that's just an example.</p>

136

<p>well apparently some sporst are more popular than others.</p>

137

<p>
[quote]
that cheerleaders should not be counted against the women's portions of athletes.

[/quote]
Don't forget the drill team and the dance team. There are some athletics happening there for sure. But wait. Those cheerleaders aren't all female, are they? And that color guard does some twirling of those rifles, too. Let's add them all up, total all the dollars. Still wouldn't pay a tenth of the costs of football. </p>

<p>Y'all need to put the blame where it belongs - with the AD's and the Trustee's not the women or their supposed lawyers-in-waiting. Title IX is the scape-goat for their inability to rein in football.</p>

138

<p>
[quote]
FORCED? they are forced?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes they are. Try reading the WHOLE sentence. I'll repeat it: They are forced to concentrate in a less desired sport if they want to leverage athletic ability in the college admissions process</p>

139

<p>"They are forced to concentrate in a less desired sport if they want to leverage athletic ability in the college admissions process"</p>

<p>Isn't there another way to gain college enterance? :)</p>

<p>A sport and I love sports, is a elective choice someone makes for personal enjoyment and whatever ya ya's they get. Unless you are a scholarship athelete, it really doesn't matter all that much in the admissions process. Besides in this situation they're aware of the environment they are competiting in. Just as my kids know the environment they are competiting in for med school. </p>

<p>Maybe, just maybe, good grades might help enterance to college.</p>

140

<p>Opie, you still are not reading the entire sentence. I'll flip it around for you:</p>

<p>If they want to leverage athletic ability in the college admissions process, they are forced to concentrate in a less desired sport.</p>

<p>From many posters experience on cc, it DOES matter if you have achieved awards, honors, or leadership positions in sports, regardless of whether or not you are a scholarship athlete.</p>

<p>These boys are having a popular sport taken away for PC reasons. Many are having their sport abruptly shut down while they are already in the college! Imagine if you kid's pre-med program were shut down tomorrow. Would your kid want to transfer? Probably not, but he might be forced to do so. (Or you could just console him by suggesting that he is a poet at heart and should change majors.) We are not talking about an obscure, expensive activity. Lots of activities help gain entrance to college. It's not all based on grades & never has been. Sports is a great one for demonstrating leadership, dedication, and the ability to function on a team. That's why colleges like to admit athletes. Your kids will need those qualities if they want to get through med school.</p>